Hype Pod - The Hype Network Podcast

Ps Adam: Well, hey, here we go.

Welcome to the Hype Pod.

Here we are with our very next episode.

And, uh, today we are in for
a treat because we do not have

Arun or Vance in the studio.

Instead, I technically have two guests.

Have you been on the Hype Pod before?

I have not.

Okay.

So we've got Andrew Thomas
on the Hype Pod today.

And, uh, special guest, Paul Lambas.

Now, but before we get to introductions,
I do need to make sure I do the Arun

special and say, make sure you subscribe,
make sure you follow, make sure you share.

Do all the business because Hype Pod
is growing and people are sharing it.

We always love getting all the
reports from Where everyone is and

just maybe some nugget that really
kind of unlocked your business or

unlocked your thinking and kind of
catapulted you into a whole new level.

We love hearing that.

So make sure you follow, share and
just let us know where you're listening

from and really what it means to you.

But I'm excited for today because I've
got two great men of faith that are here.

And, uh, firstly, I might do an
introduction to Andrew because

he's actually no stranger to Vive
Church or really the hype world.

Andrew, you've been, uh, with
us for four, 12 years now.

Is that

right?

Uh, coming up on 13.

Ps Adam: Coming up on 13 years.

Yeah.

And this is your first time on the iPod.

First time.

I finally made it.

I finally made it.

Paul: It takes that long.

Ps Adam: Uh.

I had to take out Arun, you know.

Exactly.

Any Indian guy will do.

Exactly.

That's the invasion.

Uh, I love it.

Arun 2.

0, aka Andrew, is here.

Uh, but he's got a more impressive
beard, I'll be honest with you.

Yeah, I can't really grow
that thick of a beard.

No, he's,

Ps Adam: he's, uh, it's,
it's dangerous beard.

Uh, but, uh, I thought I'd bring you
on today as well because, uh, I need to

double stack the interview questions for
this guy here to my right, Paul Lambas.

Paul Lambas.

Uh, I want to get you to give us
some insight to your business, your

background, but I'll give firstly
my insight because Paul Lambas is,

I'm going to say probably one of my
longest friends, longest friends.

I mean, what has it been now?

30 plus years.

Yeah.

Went through high school together.

Did we go through primary school as well?

What, when did you come to BOM?

Year 5.

Yeah, yeah.

So, what's that?

Element.

10, 11?

Yep.

Yeah, so 35 years.

Exactly.

Yeah.

35 years, uh, and uh,
least likely to succeed.

Paul: Well, I voted a lot.

A lot of people.

I wasn't talking

Ps Adam: about you.

I was talking about the both of us.

Us together, I think, uh, we are the,
um, we're the dark sheep of Belmont

Christian College and, um, you know,
you didn't get suspended ever, did you?

You did get suspended one time.

I think I got away
without getting suspended.

Paul: Spell it for me.

Well, I, I can't say on word . My
kids know, so it's not that bad.

But

,
Ps Adam: I definitely, I
think I got away with it.

I think, uh, I think I
just, I got blamed for it.

, I think you took the rap for me.

Um, but you know, it's just an
absolute thrill to see really

what God has done in your life.

Uh, and what a crazy adventure
from, you know, leaving school.

I think you started out in psychology.

And then you went into ministry,
Bible college, and then you took

a left turn deep into business,
finance, I think mortgages, uh,

home loans, all that kind of stuff.

And then now today you are the founder
of, uh, and visionary of Winark Group.

Uh, I guess, is it Winark Group Global?

I mean, we're in Australia,
but it's technically global.

We

Paul: do operate in about 15
countries with our operatives,

so yeah, we are, we are global.

I mean,

Ps Adam: it's absolutely impressive,
all the different pillars, all the

different spheres that you're in.

Maybe for everyone listening, just
to kind of give some context, give

us kind of the snapshot of, of where
you've come from, what you've been

doing and where things are right now.

Paul: Yeah.

Well, thanks for having us.

Yeah.

Um, so.

Yeah, so it started out, uh, really, I
say passion is, uh, people and business.

Yep.

Um, so the people side, Bible college and
obviously where I met your lovely wife.

That's right.

They did Bible college together.

And I stuck up for you and
said you were a good bloke.

I appreciate that.

Um.

Yeah, so the people side, ministry,
faith side's always been a huge part of

my life, uh, and passion for business.

So, uh, yeah, then the psychology,
wanting to be an organisational

psychologist and help people with work.

We spend more time than anything in
our workplace, so I thought if I can

help people be happy and fulfilled
at work, uh, people should generally

be pretty happy at a high level.

So I got into that, um, and then part
of that journey was someone said,

Hey, do you want to join and be in,
uh, come work for us in our finance?

Uh, yeah, I'll do that
while I'm doing uni.

So I went part time for my last
year, got married, thought it'd

be good to earn some money and
be able to afford to get married.

Uh, did alright at it in the
finance, started my own finance

business and did that for 20 years.

So then, um, Yeah, about 10
years ago, sort of had that, uh,

itch to scratch, so to speak, it
was after something different.

Uh, went back to uni, uh, to do
a master's of org psych, because

I thought I'd go back to that.

Lasted six months because I
went to studies, not for me.

Second child was just born.

But I said, Hey, well, what
have I spent 20 years honing?

And my school was in finance and property.

So I said, let's, I might start
my own development business.

And we'll just start really
small and try some projects.

And when you

Ps Adam: say start small,

Paul: what was, what was small?

It was, uh, one block of land
we split into three blocks.

Ps Adam: And just residential.

Paul: Yeah, residential.

Uh, I think we bought it for
five, I bought it for 500 grand,

did it with a mate of mine.

Ps Adam: Yep.

Paul: Cost about another
300 grand to subdivide.

Yep, develop.

And we made money.

Okay.

So, uh, that's what I learned from my
finance days, you know, manage your risk.

Yep.

Yep.

We wanted to do land, so we
weren't building anything.

We could make it happen quicker.

Mm

hmm.

Paul: So, stuck to land.

Mm hmm.

Um, and just then went.

bigger and bigger and learned that
if I got the fundamentals right,

it literally was just another zero.

Yeah.

Paul: So, um, and then I had
connections and obviously my skillset

was in the finance capital world.

So I was able to organize loans and de
risk and yeah, just, uh, took some, I

suppose what some people would say some
big risks, but I say calculated risks.

I understood and that worked
and then that funded and really

started a great property business.

Yep.

Uh, and then a property deal came up,
which, well sorry, I'll tell a lie, I was

doing an industrial subdivision, looking
for the next site, and I looked across

the road and went, Ooh, that's a nice
site, and there's a golf course, so, um.

Sorry to any golf lovers.

Yeah.

If I close that down, that'd
be a really good site.

Right.

So good.

A lot of land.

Yeah, approach the owner.

It wasn't for sale.

Okay.

It wasn't for sale.

It wasn't for sale.

Knocked on their door.

In fact, you know, I've got their details.

Um, he said timing's perfect.

Cut a long story short, we cut a deal.

Yep.

Paul: And, um, it was hugely
successfully financially.

Yep.

Paul: And, um, then I said, well,
I'm going to build an amphitheater

on the site because I love music.

I'm a drummer.

Yep.

Paul: So then I started buying
businesses in the music game

to help me with that project.

Uh, then all of a sudden that's grown.

So we're in property and music
and other things, and we're

passionate about what we do.

And, uh, we got really articulate
last year about describing who we are.

And our tagline is built
for the human experience.

Yes.

We're building a subdivision.

We want it to be a great experience.

Right.

Um, or if we're building or doing
events, that's for the human experience.

So we're really centered back to
that core value of mine and where

it all started was, which was a
love, love of people in business,

Ps Adam: love of people in business.

And you know, that human experience
is now vertically integrated in

your company because you're doing.

Uh, live experiences, you've got
sporting, you've got property, you're,

uh, I mean, you're rattling off, you
know, a lot of different companies.

I mean, you've got security, you've got
hospitality, you've got so many different

elements and what we see today with
Winnark Group is like, you know, uh, so

impressive, but I remember when we were
talking recently, there was something

that, uh, I thought was fascinating.

It was kind of like the
breakthrough moment.

You, I don't know if you remember
this, but you're talking about

how you were trying to get.

Some funding from a bank, uh,
and it was a big number to you.

Paul: I know what you're going to say now.

Yep, keep going.

But

Ps Adam: you kept missing, like,
no one wanted to partner because

it was a low number for them.

Yeah.

Ps Adam: Talk us through that moment,
because I feel like, in reflection, what

really unlocked WinArt Group today was
probably maybe that moment, or maybe

you could suggest was another moment.

Paul: No, I think it's, I
think, I think you're right.

What, what it was is the, the
loan amount was too small.

Right.

Uh, and the lenders and the contacts
I had said, yeah, we love you, we love

the project, we'll lend to you, but
you know, if we're gonna do a one, two,

3 million loan, it's not interested.

We, we'd like to start a 20 million.

Right.

And I went, okay, now we're talking . And

Ps Adam: because you were like projecting
for like a one or 2 million loan.

Paul: Yeah, a hundred percent.

I was in that space.

'cause that was big to me at the time.

Yeah, yeah.

But what happens is, uh.

We get so wrapped up thinking
our world is the world.

Right,

right.

Paul: But it's not, right?

Yeah, yeah.

So you hang, I started talking
to these guys and that was.

10 percent of what they wanted to start at

yeah,

Paul: so it challenged me to think bigger.

Yeah, and again if I
applied the same principles

Yes

Paul: Why wouldn't work
at a bigger number?

Yeah,

Paul: so I went right so that challenged
to push me to think bigger because

often It was the same amount of work.

Yeah,

Paul: so we did a much bigger
deal Yeah, and it was the same

amount of work sometimes less

It was

Paul: doing a small one, but,
um, absolutely the risk was a

bit high, but we mitigated that.

And then people with 20, 30 million
wanted to like lenders bank said,

yeah, no, that's we're interested now.

Here, here we go.

We're looking for opportunity.

So it really stretched me to, to be a
bigger thinker and not just think at

the level I was at, but get around some
bigger people who think bigger and then

it pushed me and then we just kept going.

Going from there.

Going from there.

Yeah.

Ps Adam: So, so how do you then process
that idea of, 'cause you just said,

you know, just another zero, okay.

On paper, but in reality that
that's, that's another load of

stress, you know, when, when you're
talking about the risk level.

Yeah.

How do you as a, as like a, uh, I guess
as a leader, process that amount of risk.

Um, and not, uh, I guess be
anxious because now I'm feeling

like I'm over leveraged.

Paul: Yeah.

Look, that's always a balancing act.

Ps Adam: Okay.

Paul: And.

Depending what your role is and who
you are within even your own business.

Yep.

Paul: That can change dramatically.

So what I mean by this, I'm the visionary.

Yep.

Paul: I'm out there
believing I can do it all.

Yep.

Paul: So I've got to be careful
that I don't, you know, think pigs

can fly and I can fly to Mars.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Um, all the time.

Right.

Paul: Because that's probably not reality.

Yeah.

But likewise,

Paul: if I don't think big enough.

Yep.

Paul: I'm not going to grow
and achieve great things.

Right.

So There's fundamentals that you've
still got to apply, but you've

got to believe in your own vision.

And you've got to know that it's,
it's possible because if you don't

believe in it, no one else will.

How are your team?

How's the banks?

How are the other people?

So I've got other examples where I
remember one project in particular,

I said to the agent, I did the
research on you that this land should

sell for about 200 a square meter.

There was no evidence of that,
nothing had been sold for that,

but I just made some assumptions.

So I went to the agent and he
said, Oh no, look, you know, let's

list it for 120 a square meter.

Nearly half.

Right.

Now I still would have
made money at that half.

Don't get me wrong.

Sure.

But I was like, no, that's way too low.

Yeah.

Paul: And he said, no, it's not.

I said, okay, let's go at 180, 190.

Yep.

Paul: And he still kicked a buck.

Yep.

Paul: But within days
we got sales at that.

Then I said 200.

Then we got sales.

Then I went to 220.

Then I went to 250.

Wow.

And what that taught me was, is that
you've got to believe in your own vision.

If you don't back
yourself, no one else will.

Yes.

And that's often where people fall
down, is they're so worried about the

downside, they're so worried about the
risk, which we should be, but often

that becomes your overwhelming fear.

Ps Adam: Would you say self belief is,
uh, how you increase risk tolerance?

Uh, self belief and good

Paul: counsel, I

Ps Adam: would say.

Okay, yeah, talk about the good counsel.

Because, I mean, your self
belief can be over inflated.

Paul: Totally.

I can sit at home all day
and say how wonderful I am.

Right.

How amazingly good looking I am, but
it didn't take long to press that

and I get my reality given to me.

So you've, it's a really hard thing
to manage sometimes is to have enough

vision and grit and determination.

Yeah.

But then you can't go unchecked.

Yeah.

The Bible talks about it.

You have boards, you have
people in your life that can

help you with things like that.

Um, and then you.

As the founder, owner, visionary
need to say, what do I take on?

And what do I challenge?

Yes.

And then what are the

Paul: risks?

If I, if, if I take on that challenge
and I fail, so there's, there's some

foundations you have to lie, lie,
but by backing yourself and coming

up to a decision that you believe
in, but that you can also test

now,

Paul: it doesn't mean you
take on always the council.

But you listen to it and then you wait.

So many people hear something
and just take it on.

Good and bad.

Yep.

Sometimes the agent says, no,
I'll sell it for 300 a meter.

Yeah, you're never gonna get 300.

Right.

It's 200.

So you can get counsel
the other way as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It says, no, no, don't do 10
of those, do 100 of those.

Yeah.

I think that's a bit too much.

Right, right, right.

So it can go both ways.

Yeah.

So you do have to test it and I think
that's the key is that you test it, you

get some counsel, but you layer it with
what you fundamentally believe in and

back in because it's it's your It's your
butt on the line, it's your probably

house on the line, if you're making
this financial decision or investment.

Um, but you don't want to leave
too much on the table either.

So And the more you do it, the better
you get, the more you understand.

So, um, take on a little less risk at
the start, and then you can probably

dial it up, knowing that you're not
going to lose the house on this one.

You've got a bit of a buffer now.

So, you do change a little bit as you
go, but you don't lose that appetite,

I find, to take on the risk and get
counsel, weigh it up, but you're

the one who's got to make the call.

Um, that's what I've found with selling
prop, on the property side anyway,

is that people say, I mean, if I'm
an agent, I just want to price it

fairly low so I can sell it quickly.

Of course.

I just want to move it.

I just want to move it fast.

Yep.

Paul: Now, I don't want it to
stay around forever either.

But, you want to get maximum dollar.

That's right, so push the
agent a little bit harder.

Yep.

Um, so I think, yeah, if you're just on an
island by yourself with your own thoughts,

you can end up In fairy land sometimes.

Right.

. Right.

So se seek a bit of council, but
overlay it with your, your passion.

Yeah.

And make sure there's an alignment there.

And then, and then back yourself.

Ps Adam: So you've got like a,
kind of like a broad spectrum of

businesses that you're in right now,
um, that come under the one banner.

Obviously your background, your
experience 20 years was in finance.

And so when it, I guess that
lends a lot to property, right?

When you're buying property, uh,
'cause you're doing mortgages,

home loans, all that kinda stuff.

That was kind of like your book.

Mm.

But then you ventured
out into live events.

You ventured out into, um, sport
now and, and music, um, what kind of

principles apply across and what kind
of new things do you have to learn

when going into a different market?

Paul: Right.

That's a great question.

Yeah.

So the things that apply across
is have a passion and a vision.

Yep.

Paul: People are attracted
to a passion and a vision,

um,

Paul: so if you have a team, um, even
a partner in your life, your partner,

you got to have a vision for your
life and together and whether it's

to go on a holiday or have kids or
to, to just whatever it may be, you

know, people want vision and hope.

So I think that's no matter what we've
done, I always have been really clear

and excited and I've done something
that has had vision and purpose.

Uh, so that would be the common
thing with no matter what it is,

if we're not passionate about it
or if it's not a core part of our

vision and passion, don't do it.

It might be fun.

It might be shiny.

It might be really cool.

Yeah.

Um, but is it really in
the core of our passion?

And is

Ps Adam: that because you need
the energy to see it through?

Paul: Um, well, because
then it just doesn't fit.

Ps Adam: Yeah.

Paul: It, it's a quick hit.

Or it might be, it might be great.

Yep.

But then you went, oh, why did I do that?

And we've made those decisions, but we,
we've bought something that's shiny.

Yep.

And it was like, we've done
something that's shiny.

You go, oh, why did I do that?

It's just 'cause I felt good at the time.

Yeah.

But no, I had a step back and
assessment my passion and vision.

Right.

It's not really, didn't hit that criteria.

Yeah.

Paul: The thing that I've learned or
that we've changed as we've done it is,

and as we've grown mm-hmm . Um, is then.

And I know it's really cliche,
but it is just so true.

Yep.

Build a team and get people
around you who are experts.

So when we've gone into the live
music space and the live event space.

We've gone and bought the best
teams and the best people.

Ps Adam: Okay.

So you've brought through to these
different spheres or these different, um,

a hundred percent areas, your passion,
what you like, but then you've hired the

areas of expertise that a hundred Yeah.

You didn't have We do as the executors.

Yep.

So one of

Paul: our core values is we hire
the best and we stay the best.

Okay.

And why that's a core value is
that we hire the best so that

everyone on the team knows.

Yep.

Hey, we've got a team of experts.

Yep.

Paul: But then right next to that,
we say, and we stay the best.

Yeah.

Paul: So we know that it's constant
improvement, constant change, constant.

challenging from each other, so that we
can, we can be the best at what we do.

So then we've, I've got the best people
in the security businesses, in the event

businesses, in the live music business,
in the music store businesses, um, because

we, we need to bolster it with that.

I can't do it myself.

And, and often because we think we love
something and we're passionate about it.

Yeah.

I love singing, but if I sung right
now, we'd end the podcast real fast.

We'll

Ps Adam: leave that to Andrew.

Paul: But sometimes the
passion and skills don't align.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

People think they do.

Yeah.

Because they love doing it.

So they want to do it because
they're passionate about it.

But you just got to look yourself
and sometimes tell your friends

or your colleagues how you
know what you actually know.

Ps Adam: So can I just,
can I double down on that?

Where does passion win?

Because, I mean, uh, I think you
were talking to Andrew and I earlier

today about, hey, uh, if you put
passion first, finances follow,

but if you put finances first, it's
hard to find the passion in it.

So, so when, but then you've got, but
hey, just because you're passionate about

something doesn't mean you should do it.

Paul: That's right.

So there's a difference between dreaming
and wanting to do it and in, and believing

in it and leading people to do it,
then actually executing and doing it.

Ps Adam: Okay.

Because I want to double down on this
because we're talking to a lot of

founders who maybe see a problem in the
market that they're passionate about.

Yeah.

Uh, but maybe.

It doesn't match the, the, the market's
not big enough, um, for it to be a

viable problem to solve, or maybe it's
like, it's maybe a them problem, not

a, not a whole people problem, humanity
problem, you know, that kind of stuff.

How would you define something you
just irritated by that you want to

solve or something that, you know,
deeply core value passionate about?

This is what I've got to do with my life.

Paul: Yeah.

Um, how long we got?

No, that's a big one.

Um, Uh, I think that's where sitting
in a room by yourself and not getting

counselling, that's a problem.

That's a problem.

Is that you start thinking about, I can do
this, but let's, let's now go and test it.

Is there a market for that?

And we have, we've made
a lot of big mistakes.

We lost a lot of money.

We've made a lot of money.

Yeah.

When we haven't tested and we've
gone off, you sometimes go,

well, can this actually work?

Yes.

And sometimes, is this a passion?

Just because it's a passion doesn't
mean it has to be a business.

Yeah.

So there's stuff that we give or that
we do just because we love doing it.

Does my business brain kick on and
go, Oh, I could make that a business.

Yeah, it does.

But.

That's not for me or that that doesn't
let's just make that my passion as

something I enjoy Yeah, well, that's
something I want to help or something

I want to do So I think but then when
you have that conviction and passion

and you launch it into something that
you believe you yeah You can disrupt

an industry you can change you can add
value and you can commercialize it.

Yeah You won't be anywhere near
as successful as the next person

if you don't have the passion.

Wow.

So passion just just Gets
you through the tough times.

Yeah, it gets you out of bed Yeah, it gets
your team moving and sometimes you need

to be hit with your own passions as well.

Don't get me wrong Yeah, your team
will come around you in your tough

times So so passion plays a key part
and in your vision and making it work.

Yeah, but Again, if you just
run on passion alone, yeah,

Ps Adam: so it's passion and

Paul: counsel, I

Ps Adam: mean, that wise counsel is such
a game changer because Andrew and I think

over the years we've, we've definitely
talked through so many different ideas.

Um, and, and we were just talking with
my past, the other past Jürgen and

he was talking about, you know, what
makes a, uh, a serial killer is someone

who just sits at home on their own.

You know, when you ever talk to the serial
killers neighbor, they always say, well,

it's kind of lonely and kept to himself.

You know, you talk to another
serial killer's neighbor.

Paul: You can't talk to
the neighbor because he's

Ps Adam: You killed the neighbor.

You know, but the person next door is
like, Hey, they always kept to themselves.

What's the problem?

They kept to themselves.

And after a while, like, they
just thought, Hey, you know

what, what would taste good?

Skin.

You know.

But if you said that in a group
What are you talking about?

Paul: Like,

Ps Adam: oh, you know,
no, I was just joking.

Yeah.

That'd be disgusting.

How many times

Paul: have we all thought something?

Right.

Thought something was wrong
when you say it out loud.

Yes.

It sounds stupid.

That sounds pretty stupid.

But in your head,

Ps Adam: it sounds kind of cool.

Correct.

Right.

Paul: The thing that I would
overlay over passion and skill.

Yep.

Paul: For us.

And then it's worked.

That is probably.

Yeah.

Almost higher than passion.

I would say.

Yeah.

In business.

Is timing.

Ps Adam: Okay, let's, let's
double down on that one.

Because you could have the right passion,
you could have some good counsel, but if

it's not the right timing, what, for the
market, for, for you and your skill set?

Everything.

Okay, so there's a few things
that have to align here.

Paul: Yeah, so, so, so timing,
you can't, so if, if, You can, you

know, people say, Oh, um, fools
rush in where angels fear to tread.

Right.

And then some people say,
Oh, he who hesitates is lost.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Which one is it, right?

Which one is it?

Well, it's actually both.

Yeah.

Cause we found, I'll
give you a quick example.

I was to buy, I was buying a property.

Um, totally believed in it.

Um, we did all the DD.

We were buying it.

We're trying to buy it off someone
who said that was selling it.

Yeah.

Um, and the price was 17 million.

Okay.

And believed in it, thought that
was a good number, a fair, wasn't

crazy, um, overvalued, it was right.

Anyway, didn't happen.

It all fell over, we couldn't get it
done, they didn't want to sell, anyway.

Then they, the people who had the
control of the property, also fell over.

And then, it was actually a local council
who owned the property, they took it back.

They put it to market about six
months later, and I'll just fast

forward the story, but then I
then bought it for 27 million.

And what had happened, so I paid 10
million more, only and it's basically

in a six to eight month period, but
what had changed was the timing.

There was a few things externally
that had changed in the market, and

I looked at this on the hand of the
values here and here and here, right?

So then I contracted to buy it.

Yep then I Negotiated a settlement
of about a four or five month delay.

Okay, so it was a construction project
So I could get my ducks in a line and

yep, get the construction price and
get some sales and all this stuff.

Yeah

Paul: By the time I settled
yeah, that site got valued

at a hundred and ten million

Ps Adam: Oh my gosh, . Wow.

So, oh my gosh.

So, so the way you were setting that up
is I'm like, man, you got a bad deal.

, you could have got this for 17,
you paid 10 million over then.

But that is a vastly different
like story when it's worth 110.

Paul: Yeah.

And that was only another four months.

So within eight months it
went, it, it sort of 10 xd.

Right.

Crazy.

No five xd.

Right.

Um, so.

But, well, what I'm saying
is I'm not that wonderful.

I mean, I'd love more opportunities.

I'm looking for more of those.

Don't worry.

Yes, . But, um, it was all about timing.

Right?

I was still passionate and I
believed in the project, and

the first time it didn't happen.

That was be, was something
outta my control.

Okay.

So sometimes things don't
happen in your business Yep.

In your organization, and
you've got no control over it.

Right.

But sometimes you've gotta sit
back and go, okay, well that

didn't happen for a reason.

Okay.

There was a, the, the
timing must have been right.

You can take a, a more holistic or
higher level view of all of that.

Yep.

Which which we did but then it came on but
then what happened was I wasn't restricted

by the past experience to re evaluate that
Yeah, so I'm still passionate about it.

I still have the council , but then
I, I'd picked up on some things that

had changed and I believed the value
was X because of these reasons.

Yeah.

And, and it was right.

Yeah.

Paul: But the difference was timing.

Mm-hmm.

There was no way on earth I was paying 27
when the guys were selling me for, for 17.

For 17.

I couldn't justify it.

Right.

And when I bought it for 27, I thought
that was a good deal and was about right.

Ps Adam: And how, how much later was
that From the 17 million, uh, six months.

So within six months
it's jumped 10 million.

And you still thought it was a good deal?

Paul: Yeah.

Ps Adam: Based on what?

Like what was the timing that changed?

Paul: Well, what had happened was, so
the, so what had happened in this deal

was, the 17, like I said, fell over.

Yep.

Paul: It went to market.

Yep.

Paul: I said, I'll pay 17 again.

Yep.

Paul: Then someone else.

They were

bidding.

Paul: Yeah, then there was, it
got down to some, because it

was an expression of interest.

Then a guy put an offer of 20, 27 on it.

Yep.

Paul: And anyway, then he, He
only wanted a portion of the site.

It was a really large site
and he wasn't a developer.

And.

I said to the agent, I said,
well, what's happening with it?

oh, it's been, this guy's
about to buy for 27.

I said, what's he going to do with it?

Oh, he doesn't know, but he just
needs only a small portion of it.

Right.

Paul: But at 27, it still works for him.

Yeah.

Paul: I said, okay, well, how about
I buy it and I sell him that bit?

Yeah.

And he said, oh, okay,
that sort of makes sense.

Yeah.

I'll put you in touch with him.

Got in touch with him.

And I said, hey, I'll buy this for 27.

Yep.

And, but I'll sell you your part.

Right.

And I started to deal with,
there was no risk to him.

He had three, either three year option.

Yep.

Oh, and he only had to give
me a dollar in exchange.

Wow.

Paul: But the catch was, I said
for this portion of the land, which

was like a fifth of the land, I
sold it to him for 25 million.

So you bought that entire
thing for 2 million.

Paul: Yeah.

But he had no risk because I said, you
can walk away, but I knew he wanted it.

Well, he was

Ps Adam: going to pay 27.

He was going to pay

Paul: 27

Ps Adam: anyway.

So he got a deal.

He got a

Paul: great deal.

He didn't have to put any money down.

He just gave me a dollar, signed
a contract, and he had within

three years to give me the money.

Then I had to do all the works.

So you

Ps Adam: essentially spent 2
million for 110 million property.

Paul: Give or take.

Ps Adam: It's amazing.

It's amazing.

Paul: So, but that was my
point in all of that is.

Yeah.

Is the great timing came through.

Is timing.

Yeah.

And it's something the smallest
change can happen in the market.

Yes.

In your circumstances, good or bad.

Yes.

It says you should go or you should stop.

Yeah.

Yes.

And that's what I think we often
miss because we get caught up in,

because we're so passionate about it.

Yeah.

Or sometimes we have the
money to do it, or we have the

resource, or we, or vice versa.

We don't have the resource, so we
don't think it should be happening,

then we don't, another core value
of ours is called optioneering.

There's always another way.

So, you

Paul: know, you just got to break
through and think of another option,

but all of that is, is sort of the
hand on the plow and the, and the

work, which is really important.

But sometimes I just find you,
you take a clarity break, you sit

back, you sit in the chair and
you go, is this the right time?

Wow.

Because the right deal on
the wrong time is a bad deal.

How do you know when the timing is
wrong or when you just need to push a

little further or be a little riskier?

Paul: Yeah.

Uh, normally six months after
you made the decision, and

then you get on a podcast and
only tell the good stories.

Ps Adam: But I mean, it's a good question.

Like, how do you know when,
when do I keep pushing?

Yeah.

When do I hold back?

Paul: Look, it.

Like anything, you know, the more you
practice, the more you do, um, you know,

you, you, you're missing less baskets
cause you've, you've shot at the basket

more often and it becomes a numbers game.

You know, everyone quotes
Michael Jordan's success, right?

But no one quotes all
the baskets he missed,

but you

Paul: look at how many
baskets he just shot

at,

Paul: it was enough.

So there's a little bit of that.

Yeah.

Paul: Um, Coming back to timing, you
know, there's times when I can take

more risk and there's times when I can't
take risk because something else is

happening and I want to protect and I
want to be safe for it, but then I can,

you know, so, um, once again, timing
comes into it, but I think the, the,

the more you do it, the more, you know,

but I truly believe that if you
just stop and you think about it.

You've got to follow the thing
that isn't on a spreadsheet.

Yeah, is it in a book?

It's called you gut.

Yeah,

Paul: and If you're Christian
you pray about it, you ask God

to come in and give you guidance.

Yeah And you just say is this the
right time and sometimes you just

know it is and sometimes you know,
it isn't Not a quick other story.

Yeah, I had a pass of land that
I get another pass on other site.

Yeah So, these guys, we said, Oh,
maybe we might just sell this.

We could do with a bit of extra cash.

We could go and do these other things.

What do we think?

Long story short, guy
come in, here's 7 million.

We'll give it to you in 30 days.

Okay.

Now, I don't know who's on the podcast
or listen to 7 million is a lot of money.

A lot of money.

Yeah.

And I was like, Oh, that's really good.

And we were getting
all excited about that.

Yeah.

And it made sense.

And it meant we could
do this, this, and this.

Yeah.

So, this is a good problem to have, right?

Mm hmm.

Paul: And then, Just that niggle,
just that spirit, gut, inner thing.

Ps Adam: Yep.

He felt it wasn't right.

Paul: And I just went, it's not right.

Yeah.

I just, and you know,
I don't say that often.

Right.

When there's a 7 million.

When money's coming this way.

Yes, exactly.

So the, the, the default was to say
yes, and oh, this is a great thing.

Oh, this should, this is
meant to be because someone's

giving us money so quick.

Yep.

Paul: But I said no.

Okay.

It's not right.

And then, now in that moment, did
I know that was the right decision?

You weren't sure?

No.

But I felt it was.

Mm hmm.

Now, If the bank was going to
foreclose on my house the next month

and my kids were out on the street,
I probably would have sold it.

And maybe God would be
telling me something a little

bit different at that time.

But, um, where I was at the moment
where I said, no, it isn't right.

Did I have a lightning bolt?

And did I feel that, oh yeah, well,
I've made the right decision, not

particularly, but I just felt it a
month later because I didn't sell it.

Three or four things were able to
happen and because I had that land.

Yeah, and now it's completely changed a
trajectory of something else Wow, because

I didn't so it was that inner conviction.

Yes to make me listen to and I listened
to it and Don't always get it right, but

hopefully like Michael Jordan you get it
right more than you get it wrong, right?

Let's talk

Ps Adam: about that because it's
like I know I mean we're talking

about the feeling but really as
Christians We're talking about

the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Yeah,

Ps Adam: okay, so Do you feel like as
you follow the Holy Spirit, it's those

moments where I guess you would, you
could articulate it as an obedience to

the Holy Spirit, because it was a feeling,
it was a sense that that feeling gets

stronger, that sense gets stronger, the
voice of God gets a little bit more,

uh, has more resonance in your life the
next time another deal comes by or is

it ground zero again for you every time?

Paul: Yeah, I don't feel that.

That the obedience to the Holy
Spirit is like a volume knob, that

the more obedient you are, the
louder and the clearer you hear it.

Okay.

Likewise, because you would say
the less, the more disobedient

we are, the softer it gets.

And, um, I'm sure there's different
principles that apply that obviously

that, you know, the Bible says draw
closer to me and I'll draw closer to you.

So there is that, you know,
closeness and, and more

attentiveness you can be with God.

I get that.

But in, in this circumstance, I feel that.

I think obedience would be a strong
word because often it isn't like I feel

like I'm doing something right or wrong.

It feels like, I just don't
feel like I should do this.

It doesn't feel right.

And then what I've always done
is I take the still small voice

approach and go, my faith needs to
kick in here more than obedience.

Cause I, I don't, the way God speaks to
me, often how I make these decisions isn't

a lightning bolt and there was writing
on the wall and the angel appeared.

So it's actually, I probably, I'm
exercising my, often I find my faith

muscle more than my obedience muscle.

Okay.

Wow.

Paul: I like that.

Because if.

I just come, if an angel came in
and said, do not do that, you'd be

pretty silly not to do it, right?

But that's obedience.

Yeah.

Right.

Paul: But faith is this thing.

A little bit more ambiguous.

It is.

And it's just, you know,
are you going to believe me?

Are you hearing my voice?

Are you being still and
knowing that I'm God?

It's that which I find in the busyness
and the, and the hassle of the world

we live in today with phones and
watches beeping at us and laptops and

people and kids and, you know, it's
just, it's just all incoming, right?

Yeah.

Paul: So for me, it's, it's, it's probably
a faith muscle I work and I think that

does get stronger because you pick up
the feeling and then you make a decision.

Um, and then, and God always
turns it for good anyway.

I think that's, that's how I
would probably approach it because

obedience is, that's really clear if
I'm doing the right or wrong thing.

Um, obviously there's been times in
my life I have felt God say, Hey,

you know, speak to me like that,
but on, especially on business.

Decisions and running a business I find
it's that Wow, there's so many pros

and cons and, um, what should we do
and so stop, be still here and then,

and then make that faith decision that
it's going to be all right either way,

but I feel this is the right choice.

Ps Adam: I like that.

You should say something.

So there's this, this,
uh, Paul Lambess now.

Who's a successful businessman who is,
uh, you know, obviously, uh, developed

and built a very cool, uh, business.

You've, you're really shaping industry
now, uh, not just a business, but you're

affecting the way that even in Australia
that, uh, you do sporting events,

live events, all that kind of stuff.

So it's affecting culture now.

So it's gone beyond just
starting a business.

Uh, Knowing what you know now, I think
one of the, one of the hardest things when

someone's starting a business and someone
listening might be starting a company

or they're, you know, raising a pre seed
stage and it's scary to them to even take

on, you know, angel checks from somebody.

If you could look back at Paul 20
years ago, uh, some of the, the,

the mysteries or the unknowns that
were terrifying to take step, what

would you coach yourself to do now?

That's good.

Ps Adam: Okay.

Because you've stepped way
beyond just taking risk.

You've now stepped into areas that
you have no business stepping into.

Paul: Pretty much.

I think one of the things I
would coach myself into would be,

it's, I know I said it earlier, but
it's a little bit different context.

It's, it's all going to
happen in the right time.

Yeah.

Paul: And in a world where the hustle
and the hustler and the make it happen

and the Harvey Specter, closing the
deals, you know, we, which is such

a prominent, um, It's the grind.

It's the grind.

Getting out there.

80 hours a week, 100 hours a week.

Knocking down the doors.

Hey, you could just be
doing figure eights.

Yeah, exactly.

You're not going anywhere, right?

Right.

And busyness doesn't equal effectiveness.

Yeah.

All that sort of stuff.

So I think, but you need
a hustle to break through.

Don't get me wrong.

And you need the grit
and the determination.

Yeah.

I think what, um, I know Gary
Vee mentions it a lot actually.

I see some of his stuff
come through sometimes.

It just says, Hey, you've
got plenty of time.

It's okay.

Yeah, right.

And

Paul: I think we lose perspective.

of God's plan, of, and so it's that
fine line, just in those moments

where you get anxious or you want it
yesterday, sometimes God's slowing

you down and he's not giving you
something because you're not ready.

If you're faithful with little,
then you'll get the much.

Yep.

Or he's just putting up a stop
sign because he's fixing that big

pothole on that bridge that's Broken.

Yep.

Paul: On that cliff so
you don't fall in it.

He's repairing the road.

He's fixing the bridge, then he
turns green, then you go through it.

Yeah.

Paul: And that could be years.

It can be months.

It can be weeks.

It can be days.

Yeah.

But I think 20 years ago, you want it all.

Yes.

You want it all so fast.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And in society, we want it all yesterday,
but man, I, I wasn't ready for this.

20 years ago, but I
wanted it 20 years ago.

Yeah.

Paul: So I think that perspective.

Yeah.

I think, um, it's then you've got
the skill and you've got the maturity

to handle the losses and the wins.

Sure, sure.

Um, and the lessons and the growth.

So yeah.

I think, I think that's Everyone
wants to be a success overnight.

Yeah.

Everyone wants their, their start to get
a a hundred million dollar valuation Yep.

In six months.

Yep.

They, they align themselves with investors
and with partners that want that too.

So, take the long game, take the
longer view because, you know,

anything of value takes time.

There's one, there's one element
we often talk about in a marriage.

Yes.

There's one thing.

That adds to a marriage that
nothing else can as time.

Yeah.

That can be a good thing and a bad thing.

It depends on the marriage.

I've got a wonderful
marriage, love my wife.

Well, that's what, but that's,
but, but 20 or, you were saying

you're 23 years this month.

Right.

23 years married.

Yep.

Yeah, I was 21 years in December.

Yep.

But when you're with someone for 20, 30,
40 years, guess what that all that history

and all that connection that you have
Yes, nothing can replace what time can do.

Yes, a massive oak tree.

Like you can't grow, you know what I mean?

So yeah, I think we undervalue the value
of the time it takes to do something.

We want everything instant and fast
and quick and you know And in business

you can have that and we see those
successes, but I think that's The advice

I give myself would be, it's okay,
it doesn't have to happen overnight.

Right.

Chill out a bit.

Chill out a bit.

And let the process be just as enjoyable
as, as the destination that you're

heading and you'll become a better leader,
person, father, friend, um, along the way.

Yup.

Paul: Um, and you, then you can
build, then you've got, then

you've got a great foundation.

Ps Adam: I love that rather

Paul: than that quick hit
because, um, you make silly

decisions when you're in a hurry.

Ps Adam: I mean, talking about silly
decisions, I think, uh, as I think

back about when we're at school,

Paul: Oh no,

Ps Adam: just, no, I'm
not gonna give away.

We're gonna edit this Exactly.

I'm not give away too many
specific stories, but I mean,

we made a lot of dumb decisions.

Okay.

We made a lot of silly decisions.

But I think, uh, when I look back, all
three of us have made a very good decision

in the, uh, women that we chose to marry.

Um, uh, talk, maybe just unpack that
cause you've got an incredible wife.

Uh, she's awesome.

Um, I would say that, uh, she's risky.

She took a risk on me.

I took a risk on you, but, but even
in just like, you know, the support

in you taking these risks, obviously
it's like a decision that you

make together as husband and wife.

Uh, what's that journey been like,
uh, for, for you to kind of being

this passionate entrepreneur.

And bringing that to your spouse.

Paul: Well, I've often said to a
few friends, I think I might've

said it to Laurel, Lauren, my wife.

I said to her, yeah, I've gone at times.

I probably wouldn't want
to be married to me.

Ps Adam: I think I've said that to Kira.

Yeah.

So I'm

Paul: fully aware of my
shortcomings and the whirlwind of.

Whatever I can bring
in the door sometimes.

So, yeah, it is not lost on me
the, the patience and virtue of

a, of a loving, faithful wife.

Cause that's what I definitely have.

Um, and, and it's hard because,
you know, opposites attract.

And, you know, God calls, you know,
has called me to be out there and what

I feel, you know, knocking down doors
and creating opportunity and disrupting

and doing cool things and big things.

And I've got an appetite
and a stomach for that.

Um, but lol would be happy in a.

Yeah.

Two bedroom little cottage, white
picket fence, you know, a dog and

you know, we all walked to school.

We're like, that's, that's her.

So we've got these two worlds of
opposites, but we, we, we've been

joined together and love each other.

And, and then you go, then you throw kids
in the middle of that, who are a bit of

her and a bit of me and a bit of something
that we didn't even know existed.

And who'd you get that from?

You know?

So then that throws it in and you
want to teach your kids to think

big, but you want them to be humble.

And so.

So.

But look, I think, I think
we're, we've really done well.

In our marriage has been when
we've got on the same page.

Yeah,

Paul: and we said, okay,
what are we doing this for?

What's what's the vision?

What's the goal?

And if it's to hey if we achieve
this where we can take the whole

family on a holiday and that would
bless us and Hopefully bless them.

Yes, and that gives us And then
maybe if we, if we have a win

financial, that means we can give
or we can do something over here.

Yeah.

Paul: So it puts context
over, um, my nature.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Paul: Of more and more and keep going.

Yeah.

Paul: Um, but then it also shows
me what's really important to, to

Lowell and what her values are.

Yeah.

Um, because when you don't As we don't
work together every day and are in the

same business or it will be that's,
you know, she's got her own business.

Perfect example is that she, she's
got this amazing little, uh, giftware,

um, florist business called Peggy
B named after her grandmother.

Amazing business.

It's in the community.

Her heart's for community.

She loves people.

They love it.

They come in.

Um, it's, it's probably, you know,
half the size of this office.

Right.

So it's a boutique.

Little boutique.

Beautiful.

Amazing.

Yep.

I look at it and go, let's take
this thing national and grow it.

And she goes, you get your hands
on it, you're not touching it.

You're not touching it.

It's staying small.

It's staying small and cute.

Because she can shut it when she wants.

She can open when she wants.

Yeah.

And it's just her vibe and her feeling.

Right.

You know, so, so then we share
business on that particular thing.

But I'm thinking global domination.

And she's going, no,
just in the community.

We could chain this.

That's right.

So I think.

And then as well, where the angst is
coming, where the stress is sometimes

coming is when you're not aligned
and you're both doing things, and

you forget why you're doing it.

What the greater context is.

Wow.

So where we try and, you know, continue
to get the same page on is that context,

is we want to achieve these things,
do these things, give to these things,

and where we can support each other.

Yeah.

Um, that's where the magic happens.

I love that.

Um.

I should say no to more things.

I know she tells me that and she's
right, but I keep saying yes to things.

Um, so sometimes I've got to pull back.

Um, and then likewise, I try and
encourage my wife to be excited

about the things I say yes to.

So we can meet in the middle a
little bit, but that's the challenge.

But I think when there's a greater
context, we know that we're, we're trying

to achieve something by what we're doing.

It keeps us unified because we
are, you know, really different

people and God's given us.

Uh, us each other and we love
each other for our strengths.

Yep.

Um, and our characteristics.

Then we've got beautiful children.

Yep.

Paul: So staying on that same
page is always the, the challenge.

Yep.

Um, but when we have those clear goals,
it, it just, it just cuts through and

it, it really makes it worthwhile.

Ps Adam: I love that.

Mm.

You know, one of the things I'm
thinking through here right, is, um.

Um, you know, some people might,

Paul: I just, just want to say,
just, just say one last thing

because if she ever listens to this,
I'll, I'll get some brownie points.

My wife doesn't listen to this, so, you
know, well, yeah, let's see what she does.

She does remind me because when I
was starting my finance business and

whatnot, she was a school teacher.

That's right.

She was my daughter's teacher.

Yes.

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She taught my daughter.

Yeah.

So she constantly reminds me if it
wasn't for me supporting you and

bringing in the way, you'd be nothing.

So, you know, she, um, she
absolutely has contributed to the

business success by supporting me.

And my, uh, when you're

Ps Adam: a starving, uh,

Paul: entrepreneur, the starving want
to be entrepreneur, trying 10 different

things and all the more failing.

She had the stable job, the
stable job, paying the bills.

She's the breadwinner.

She was the breadwinner.

Ps Adam: Yeah, I'm thinking about
this in the context of, um, you know,

you've got so many different variables
when you're starting a company,

you've got maybe risk tolerance, maybe
you've got passion areas, but you

also don't know what you don't know.

And so when I, when I look at kind of
the industries that you're in now, uh,

I think I've got this beautiful vantage
point of seeing you, uh, back growing up.

We had, we're almost the same
age with like seven days apart.

Um, and, uh, we, we've grown up in
the same environment, the same town.

And yet you have broken through
in different industries that we

really didn't know anything about.

Where does the knowledge gap serve
you and where does it hinder you?

Paul: Great question again,
mate, um, where it helps you is

sometimes you can know too much,

Ps Adam: right?

Cause sometimes being ignorant
about the problem actually is bliss.

So

Paul: Um, often you can know too much
about something because you start

rattling of all the negatives and all
this kind of, and you're probably right.

Ps Adam: That's what I find with lawyers.

Paul: A lot of time

Ps Adam: lawyers will tell you all the
reasons why you shouldn't do something

because they, they know the law,
they know the problems and you go,

okay, thank you for that information.

Paul: We call them SPOs,
sales prevention officers.

But that's exactly what it is.

right, we've got to get the SPOs
involved and it normally derails.

You've got to get them out, get
it back on track and you close it.

So any lawyers out there, you're
an SPO, sales prevention officer.

Love that.

We're incorporating that Andrew.

So you can know too much.

And a mate of mine is a real estate agent.

Cause all these out of towners were buying
a lot of property in the town I was in.

Right.

And he said, you know the biggest problem?

He said, the locals know too much.

Yeah.

They remember what that
sold for five years ago.

Yes.

They remember what next door sold,
or they bought this for something,

and they're like, oh, it's not
worth that, it's not worth that.

Right.

But someone with fresh eyes comes
in and goes, from a different

perspective and goes, that's actually
underlying really good value.

Yeah.

This, this area is about to boom
and they look at it from a new lens.

Yeah.

So people who are local or
people who are in an industry.

Yes.

Paul: Often know too much.

Yes.

So they don't have the opportunity
to widen their mindset and

look at things differently.

That's so true.

I think it's always been done that way.

So we just do it that way.

Yeah.

So that's where knowing too
much can be a real, real, real

problem that it holds you back.

Ps Adam: Yeah.

Um.

Not knowing enough.

What about that?

And how do you break through that barrier?

Paul: Not, not knowing enough is, is
probably a, a, a pretty simple remedy.

Is you just hire someone that does.

There you go.

There you

Paul: go.

And what it means is It, it actually
often means for those people starting

a business or in a new business.

And look, to be honest, it's
in any level of business at

times, we don't have the money.

We don't have the resource, but
the question is what happens if

you don't put the money into that?

Yeah.

Paul: So when, so not knowing enough
about something is, is a real issue.

Don't get me wrong.

And when we've made mistakes, when we
thought, when we didn't know something

about something, it was a stupid decision,

Ps Adam: right?

Paul: But you can hire people, you
can get people on board, you can get

partners, you can get a strategic partner.

It doesn't mean a full time person all the
time, a consultant, you read, read a book.

What I love about books is
learn what something, it took

someone 30 years to learn

and

Paul: learn it in a week.

Yeah.

Cause they put it in the book.

That's right.

Exactly.

You just read the book.

Yeah.

That's very good.

Paul: So, you know, there's
so many things you can do when

you don't have the knowledge.

Yeah.

Paul: To fix it.

So that's the, that, that's
a really easy problem.

But I think there's just like, we.

I had a business coach, we still use him
actually in the business, and one thing,

I was like oh, there's no one around,
I can't get anyone for that, all that,

you know, but he said right, so are
you telling me there's not one person

in the world that could do that job?

Ps Adam: Yeah, right.

Paul: Well, yeah, of course there is.

Well, do you think there's five?

Ps Adam: Right.

Paul: No, you're probably, because you
think there's ten, there's a probably,

do you think there's a hundred?

Probably.

I said probably is, alright,
you made your point.

And he goes, so you're just not
looking in the right places?

Yeah, right, very good.

So, not knowing, um, And then going into
something is, is, is being, being a bit

silly and you've got to assess the risks.

Um, but sometimes ignorance is
bliss and you just go, you know,

I'm going to give this a go.

I think it's right.

I think it's going to work.

And yeah, so it's, it's a fine
line and it's a different, it

comes in different phases as well.

And you can take risks on
things at different levels

that you can't on other things.

You know, like we've got a lot of
staff now, so that weighs on me.

But also I can't let that weigh me down
to not still take risks and opportunities.

No, I agree.

So, um, I mean, I

Ps Adam: talk about this all the time,
even in the world of church, like I would

never have, I think God and his kindness
doesn't show us all the obstacles up

front because we would assess and go not
worth it or it's going to be too hard.

But I think God releases them in stages.

So you can sometimes even look back.

Well, I've come this far.

Yeah.

Ps Adam: I might as well keep going,
even though the next obstacle is big.

I've already come so far, it's like,
let's just keep going, you know,

let's keep, you know, uh, dealing
with it and taking on one at a time.

Paul: At home, in Australia, there's
so many, um, and if any of my mates at

Property Valuers listen to this, um, I
apologize in advance, but you know, in all

the professionals that I used to deal with
in finance, you know, the one profession

that would never really own property
or buy property was Property Valuers.

Wow.

So the

Paul: guys that the banks
and people are paying for.

Yeah.

To go and tell them what
properties are worth.

Hmm.

We're never buying any property
because they just couldn't, they just

couldn't get their head around it.

Wow.

But they didn't have the guts to do it.

Wow.

Ps Adam: But they were valuing it.

They

Paul: were the most qualified people.

Ps Adam: To value a property.

In the world, in the country, in the

Paul: state, in the city.

Isn't that crazy?

They were telling banks what it was worth.

Yeah.

So you think that person
could identify a good deal.

A good deal, right.

So they should be buying all the property.

Yeah.

Right.

Wow.

But they had the most knowledge.

Often the most knowledge.

Knowledge doesn't help.

Doesn't help.

Doesn't help.

Doesn't help.

You need to be.

Yeah.

You're looking above the situation.

You're not in the detail because when
you are, you often don't create, you

don't disrupt, you don't take the risk
because you, you talk yourself out of

it because you know, you know too much.

Wow.

That's so true.

I

Paul: just used to, I used to poke
fun at them all the time and they're

all, they're all mates of mine.

But I said, I'm paying you to tell
me whether I should do a deal or

not and you've never done a deal.

Wow.

You know, and that's okay, like, but it's
just, it's just to that point of knowledge

can sometimes, um, be dispowering
as, as much as it can be powering.

For sure.

Ps Adam: For sure.

You know, every time we're talking,
uh, there's always some kind of nugget

that, uh, you drop, uh, and, uh, kind of
leaves me reeling for a couple of days.

Um, talk about just real quickly, I know
we don't have much time, but I wanted to

hear like the understanding of, um, what
you saw was your advantage in business.

that you said, this is what I'm
going to kind of build from.

Talk to us about that,
that idea of the advantage.

Talk about that, like identifying that.

And how do you know
what your advantage is?

Paul: Yeah, I, I can't remember
the exact move, but I got it off a

movie that I watched where, um, I
know it was Matthew McConaughey was

the, was the actor, but he said, um,
make your advantage, your advantage.

Ps Adam: Yeah.

I think it was The Gentleman.

Paul: Yeah.

I think it was.

Yeah.

And so two things at
the point in time where.

I left my finance, 20 years in
finance, dealing with agents, real

estate agents, uh, bankers, lawyers,
self prevention officers, um, other

developers, builders, everything.

I left that to then jump into, um, back
into my psychology degree, inquiry, and

realized very quickly it wasn't for me.

And then I suddenly went, well, hang on,
what if I just spent 20 years refining,

what 20 Making your

Paul: advantage.

Making my advantage.

Yep.

And then what happened was I could look
up property values, I could look up

mortgages, I could look up late, I could,
I had all these tools at my disposal Yeah.

And could do it like this.

Yeah.

Paul: And that was my advantage.

My advantage wasn't going back to uni
and starting, starting from scratch.

Right.

Right.

Paul: So I thought that's my
advantage to move forward.

Right.

Um, and so then when I, when
I figured that out, that

actually then was my advantage.

. Yeah.

Yeah,

Paul: yeah.

Yeah.

So the way I can do finance and structure
deals and know that helped me be able

to do the deals that I've talked about
here and the whole heap of others.

Yeah.

Um.

So, so for example, one, another quick
example was another property was banks

generally, and then they might do it
here as well, is they'll either lend

off the contract price or the valuation.

Yep.

Paul: We're ready for the
catch, whichever is the lesser.

Yeah.

So I buy

Paul: a property for a million dollars.

Yep.

Paul: They value it at 900.

Yep.

They lend off the 900.

Yes.

Paul: If I buy it for a million
dollars and they value it at 1.

1 million, then they'll lend off the 900.

The contract.

Yeah.

The

Paul: million dollars.

So you snagged either way, right?

Yeah.

Right.

Paul: But what part of my advantage was
I knew lenders that actually said, no.

Well if you get a value and we
support, we'll end off the valuation.

Right, right.

So that was part of my
advantage that I'd learned.

You knew?

That knew over that 20 years.

So then there was another
property I I negotiated on.

Um.

That got valued at

27 million and we exchanged it for 15.

Right.

So the bank lent me on the 27 and
gave me all the money and some cash.

Wow.

So I owned the property and they
actually gave me money to buy it.

That's

Ps Adam: amazing.

Paul: That's amazing.

I was comfortable with the leverage
because of the other risks so I

still had to concentrate on that.

However, my point was.

That was my advantage.

Right?

Yes.

And I could do those sort of deals
and then make, make more money.

I didn't have to on that particular deal.

I didn't have to put anything in.

Yeah.

Wow.

Paul: I had a conversation with a,
another man of mine who was, um, a

drummer in a, um, in a world famous band.

Yep.

Paul: And we got talking and he said,
um, oh, I'm gonna start doing books

on, um, drum practice routines and
wanna sell 'em to kids and whatnot.

I went.

Oh yeah.

, like I said, sounds good.

I said, no offense, but yeah.

I said, my kid, who you are aiming
at wouldn't even know who you are.

Right, , because I know who
you are because you're my age.

But I said this concept of, I
said, that's not your advantage.

No.

Your advantage is you were
a world class drummer.

In a world class band.

Yeah.

That did all this.

You need to be looking at this, this, and
this, because people can't talk about.

touring the world right as a world famous
drummer and a world famous band yeah

Ps Adam: yep

Paul: and if

Ps Adam: but a no name drummer
can do a tutorial that's right I

said but anyone can do that yeah

Paul: you're right and I said yeah because
that's your advantage that's your unique

yes selling proposition that's your
uniqueness so once once people start

thinking about that it really narrows
it down because often you go to what you

think you should do or could do or what's
sensible to do but what's uniquely your

advantage and then you will be infinitely
more successful than the next person

once you know that and you apply that.

So good.

That's what I believe and I've experienced
and I've seen time and time again.

So good.

One of the other nuggets you dropped
this morning, just in my one day

of knowing you so far, Paul, I was
asking, cause you have, the WinArch

group has so many different pillars
or the four pillars, but industries

that coming from a finance background.

You'd never think you'd venture
into, um, and so I was asking

you how you, um, how you decide.

Okay.

I'm going to go into this one.

You talked about the one
plus one equals three.

Oh yeah.

Could you talk more about that
and how, you know, when you

have that one plus equals three,

Paul: um, um, I'm a big
believer on passion and energy.

And vision, like all
that soft, fluffy stuff.

But it's the secret sauce that gets us
out of bed and helps us start businesses

and grow churches and do the impossible
and disrupt and to be honest, sometimes

just survive and make a living as well.

Don't get me wrong, right?

So what happens though is that
then we want to partner up, right?

And or then we want to get people
in and it could be investors,

it could be a business partner.

It could be, um, It could, it
could be a personal relationship.

Um, but in business, what I've found
is if, if one plus one still equals two

Yeah.

Paul: It's, it's not
energizing none percent.

Yeah.

It, it's not good for you.

And it's not good for me.

We actually haven't, and, and often
for me that that's actually a sign

to say we shouldn't do something.

Yeah.

Paul: Um, because what happens
is one plus one sometimes equals,

equals one sometimes, and it's, you
know, it just, it just doesn't work.

And we're not, if we're both not getting,
um, exponential value out of coming

together, why are we coming together?

Correct.

Let's just ask that question.

Yeah.

Paul: And if it is, well,
there is no exponential value.

It's actually going to end in tears
probably like you'll get upset I'm not

doing something or you're not doing
something with the outcome will not

be great and then we'll sit back and
go I could have just done that myself.

Yeah, why am I giving half to
this guy or he's, you know, right?

So then, but the flip side occurs, right?

One plus one equals three.

So then I go, Oh, hang on a second.

If I do this and you do that,
well, we can create something

that I know I can't do by myself

and

Paul: that you can't do by yourself.

How excited and energized are we?

Yeah.

Paul: Yeah.

And how awesome is the
creation of what we do?

Yes, the energy.

And a good

Paul: example is when
people take money, right?

They, they, uh, and Shark
Tank's a great example of that.

Yep, yep.

You know, if all the sharks put an
offer on, we'll take the one that's

going to bring the most value.

Yep.

And where it equals three.

You know, we see that on that TV show.

And I think what happens, we can get so
desperate or we can get so keen or we want

to do something we don't, we don't, we
just think one plus one equals two, which

is a great, but it's not lasting enough.

It doesn't give us
enough fire in our belly.

And we want to be doing
threes and fours and tens.

Yeah.

This one equals 10.

Yeah.

You know, um, to get another example
was one of the few times I've done.

Um, partnerships was, um, was with a
mate of mine who was, um, actually doing

a bit of CrossFit with at the time.

Yep.

And he was a builder and he built
all these childcare centers.

Yep.

You know, I found this site that we
thought, Hey, this could be a childcare

center, but I wasn't a builder and I'm
not a builder and didn't know any of that.

Right.

He couldn't find sites, but he
was looking for opportunity.

Yep.

you think of this?

He's like, boom, boom.

He did a bit of work.

I did a bit of work.

Yep.

And then we said, yeah, this is great.

Yep.

Awesome.

He, I talked to the agent and secured
the deal and got a cracking deal there.

Yep.

He priced it up and then, and
then we built, then we bought it.

Yep.

And we did it together
and we were both stoked.

Love it.

Paul: Wow.

And I, he did none of the negotiating
and settling of the property.

Right.

I did none of the building.

Yeah.

So he did what he was really good at.

You were good at.

And now, actually we
still own that together.

So one plus one equals three.

One plus one equals like 33 on that one.

Love that.

Let's go.

And it was easy.

It was enjoyable.

Yeah.

It was fun.

Yeah.

Um, he was.

Using his skills.

I was using my skills.

Yeah,

Paul: and that's where
the three came from.

Yeah,

Paul: and It doesn't mean things don't
get hard or difficult along the way,

there's some cost blowout, but we
went, okay, we'll just deal with it.

Yeah.

Cause we knew it was
equaling, it was equaling.

Yeah.

And I think when you get that magic.

I love that.

You go, wow.

And, and, and people don't often think,
what happens if things go really well?

They're always trying
to protect the downside.

Right, right.

So someone says, I'll take money
or take that partner on because in

case this doesn't work, this startup
doesn't work or this business fails

or whatnot, I'll protect my risk.

But then what happens if it does?

Yeah.

Right.

And like, what if things go really well?

You want a partner in there
that you're energized.

Yes.

And to know that we could go into another
10 child care centers if we wanted to.

Yeah.

Paul: Cause he's got, you know, so you
got to also think what I want this thing

to go really well and into the future.

I want that energy now.

And if we don't have the energy
and if it makes it really hard and

it's hard enough doing what we do.

It's very hard.

So you want energy and
you want inspiration.

I want to know that I'm in business
with someone or, you know, if I've

got someone in that corner who's
just a weapon of what they do.

And I want them to know
I'm a weapon of what I do.

And then we go, man, we can go
and do some really cool stuff.

Ps Adam: I think, you know, obviously,
uh, I love that, the energy.

And we've already talked about the passion
that you have that drives everything.

I think when I, uh, think about.

You specifically, there is, you have
had a willingness to take the risk.

I think a lot of people would think
about, Oh, that'd be a good idea.

They'd see a property or whatever
and go, Oh, that'd be cool.

But then there's no follow through.

What's your motivation?

Where does that come from

Paul: to take the risks on to do things?

Um, well, I often say.

Well, they're not going to cut my
arms and legs off if it doesn't work,

so let's start with why not.

Right.

Okay.

Let's start there.

Instead of why, let's
start with the why not.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Hey, let's just give it a go.

What's the worst that's going to happen?

Yeah.

Now, hey, if they are going
to cut my arms and legs off,

I will really think about it.

I maybe won't do it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But let's, let's start with a why not?

That's such a good place to start.

Yeah.

Why not do it?

And then, hey, let's, let's
be serious about this.

Could this send us broke?

Is this a bad idea?

Right.

Get us in trouble.

Is this not the right market?

Yeah.

Is this the wrong, you know, so we get
through a bit of a process and I go

through that, but always start with a
why not, why not, rather than a why.

That's beautiful.

That's so good.

Because you just, you're in the
position of making a deal happen,

you, you're in a mode of creating.

Yeah.

You're in a mode of problem solving.

You're in a mode of opportunity.

Yeah.

You, you, you're in a,
you're in a mindset of faith.

You're in, you're in a mindset
of energy and excitement.

Yeah.

Just because then that attracts more.

What I find is when you're in the mode
of why not, the, the, the people who

can't figure out why get on board.

Yeah.

I love that.

And

Paul: then it's a, it's a great
leadership tool to say, Hey, why not?

Why can't we do this?

It's still confidence.

There's always another like
optioneering is one of our things.

There's always another way.

So if we get a roadblock, guess what?

We're going to figure out a way.

Right.

Is there roadblocks?

There probably will be.

Do I know what they are?

Do I have the answers?

No.

Ps Adam: But hey, we'll figure it out.

I love that.

Why not do it?

I think from a Christian perspective
that why not is probably closely

related to, well, hey, if God's
for us, who could be against us?

Right.

You know, it's just this sense
that, okay, well, hey, God's for us.

Everything else will figure out.

I love that.

I love that.

Unfortunately, we're out of time,
but that was like, that's awesome.

I think we've, uh, we've been, uh, kind of
mining gold all day in our conversation.

So it's good to bring some to the platform
and talk to the hype, uh, membership.

I'd love to get.

I'd love to get, uh, Andrew, I'd love
to get Paul on a live hype session one

day, maybe in Dubai sometime, maybe
we can do some property deals over

there probably or something like that.

Um, but, uh, it's a real
treat to have you, Paul.

Thanks for having us.

Ps Adam: Thanks for having us.

It's great to have Andrew's support, his
moral support first time on the show.

pod, look out Arun, Andrew's
coming through with the nuggets.

But Hey, again, uh, love your hype world.

So glad that you're
venturing out, taking risks.

Hope you can take something from this
podcast and, um, yeah, be leaning in out.

Just a little update, uh, hype.

Uh, Con Dubai is happening,
uh, April 23, 24.

It is going to be at the
Paramount Hotel, uh, that's right.

The dates are set, the location is
set, and we're stacking the sessions.

It's going to be amazing.

Actually coinciding with
the AI summit in Dubai.

So the global AI summit is
happening in Dubai at the same time.

So if you want to cross pollinate
worlds, you want to learn about AI

and you want to kind of come and
visit hype con, it is definitely

a great time of year to be there.

And we're going to pack it out.

I think we've only got
a hundred tickets left.

So, uh, you want to get
in very, very quickly.

Go to hype network.

org and, uh, yeah.

Tune in next time to
the very next episode.

Bless you guys.