Hype Pod - The Hype Network Podcast

Arun: So welcome.

Welcome.

Um, I'm just going to intro us
for the innovators out there.

The kingdom builders out there.

This is Hypod episode 35.

We are actually on season two.

Now we got all the cool
guests on season two.

You probably didn't know this, but

Ps Adam: we actually last
week went into season two.

We changed seasons.

What a milestone.

Arun: Yeah.

We've eclipsed.

And that's why we had
to get a special guest.

Let's go Michelle Obama.

Oh, Pastor Michelle

Ps Adam: Stewart

Arun: is on the podcast.

Ps Michelle: Just back from the DNC.

Oh, speaking of,

Arun: I feel like we should
just let you go right into that.

Oh,

Ps Adam: I think we should warm up.

I think we should.

He's a warm up.

He's a warm up.

Yeah, go for it.

Uh, I'm going to jump straight in today.

Let's go.

And, um, because I think that
people might ask, hang on.

I thought this was an
innovation and faith hype pod.

Last week you started
talking about politics.

Here we are launching in calling
names, Michelle Obama talking DNC.

What has that got to do with innovation?

Well, here's the truth.

Our whole system has a very integrated
system with free market capital.

Yeah, the way the government allocates
spending, the way that government

allocates, uh, policies, the way
the policies are driven definitely

determines a business's outcome.

Inflation, property prices, uh,
when property prices are up,

there's no, We have to get our.

Yeah.

When the economy is doing well we
see a lot of philanthropic giving.

We see a lot of things tied to what
actually happens in the politics.

So this is a very important topic.

Even if you don't, if you're the kind
of person that says I'm not that into

politics, Well, if you innovation,
if, if you're into innovation, into

building business, you should be,

Arun: you should be very concerned.

Yeah.

You should be educated.

You should know what the topics
are people are talking about.

Cause if you're going to
build in this space, in this

country, you really got to know.

You've

Ps Adam: got to know.

So I think that's the warmup.

Yeah.

Yep.

I mean, we're right in the midst of DNC.

And I thought it was really important to
have, uh, Michelle here because, uh, we

talk actually a lot about this as, as a
perspective, uh, from what is happening

in our country and maybe, uh, Michelle,
you could give us a thought from you.

Arun: I

Ps Adam: mean, you watch
the RNC, you watch the DNC.

What would you say are the biggest
differences that you're seeing

coming down the pipeline right
now for the American people?

Ps Michelle: Oh, I think something
that's been sort of illuminated

to me is you have a lot of people
that are entrenched in what they

think their party is about, right?

Right.

The democratic party of 2024 is
not the democratic party of 1996.

And what you're seeing happening is that
they are almost real time reinventing

who they want their party to be.

Right.

Same with the RNC.

Like, I think

Ps Adam: I would agree.

No, I mean, the

Ps Michelle: RNC, it opened up with
what, I can't remember what religion

she was, but it wasn't Christian.

They were doing the prayer of some form.

And it's like, And there is an element
that that party is also reinventing

or looking what it, what it means
to be a Republican now is a lot more

open, I think, than it was before.

So I think you're finding
like, it's like we're real time

watching people, organizations,
parties reinvent themselves.

And what you have, we have to do is like
the American people watching, and I put

this interesting poll of, you know, are
you, are you Democrat, are you, Republican

or you neither right and there is a
growing base that I think can't find

themselves in either one of those parties
right now And it's really who's going

to end up winning is how much can you?

Be something for that middle group
of people Right because you have a

lot of people that are just like look
i'm not like you say they're like i'm

not that into pot Like it's so messy.

It's name calling.

I really don't understand
What's happening?

How does the regulation here impact
me like and so they just stay out of

it and they're just like well What
I do understand Is that McDonald's

ice cream cost me 3 and 49 cents.

And it used to cost me 1.

And so now they're listening, you
know, trying to figure out like,

okay, so the things that are important
to me, which party speaks to that.

And what you're finding now is that
people are listening for their party.

For their party.

And the parties are playing
to that a little bit.

Arun: Mm-Hmm.

,
Ps Michelle: they know what will get
a certain type of base to listen in.

If I say certain buzzwords, you're
gonna, you're gonna pay attention.

Arun: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I'll say we have a good spread
of like, people that are in politics.

I'll say I'm closer to the side
that doesn't care about politics.

I'm like a, a one kind of voter.

Why.

I think it's mostly around the, you can
never really trust what you're getting

from the government and politics.

And so it's, oh, it's so much of,
that has to come on you to go dig

into it and find the people that you
can trust and all that kind of stuff.

And it just feels like it's not worth
the effort because you're always

fighting against misinformation.

Um, and then there's just
so much drama around it.

It's like if I wanted to just watch
TV, I'll just go watch like a TV

show or something like that, right?

So, but it's important, like
you said, so it's still not

something I'm going to close off.

I got to just be aware
of what's happening.

Um, but I think the things that
really matter to me are the things

that affect my life directly.

And so I

Ps Adam: think I, I take
probably a different position.

My interest in politics is the drama in
the sense that it's, it's high stakes.

Reality.

Yeah.

You'd love drama cause you love
sport and, uh, people love football.

They love basketball because
it's actually no risk drama.

Arun: Mm hmm.

Ps Adam: There's, at the end of
the day, if your team loses, so

what, it doesn't affect your life.

In politics, if, and let's not say
your team, but, but the values that

you believe what this country should
be built off, if that party who has

those, uh, policies doesn't get in, well
then there is an impact on your life.

Arun: That's a really good point.

And I think growing up is being willing
to go from sports, which is a no risk

thing to going into politics, which
is a high risk, but it's taking a

stance one way or the other and being
able to have those conversations.

But it's much easier in sports
when it doesn't really matter.

You can kind of just move on, but here
it's much more divisive and much more.

You could lose friends just by
saying who you're voting for.

Right.

Ps Adam: I think that's, um, that's, that
seems to me to be a modern era thing.

I don't think.

I think you used to be able to
sit down with someone at the table

and they'd say, Oh, I'm Democrat.

Okay.

Interesting.

Why?

Or like, and I didn't think anybody
ever said they were Democrat or they

said I'm liberal or conservative seemed
to be more of the thing, but I could

vote either way back, back in the day.

Nowadays it's very much entrenched.

I mean, and I think the dividing,
I would say dividing line, the

dividing chasm is very, very clear.

Arun: How do we open that up?

How do we open that conversation?

How do you guys do it?

How do you guys open that conversation?

Ps Adam: I think for me, um, I
like to say, uh, how can you be

a Christian and be a Democrat?

No, I'm kidding.

I like to Can't get
worse than that, right?

Just start there.

Look, I really think that, um, it is
What we have, okay, let me, let me

answer that with a synopsis, okay?

Because I agree with Pastor Michelle.

I feel like what you have is two
parties that are emerging within

what have been the parties, okay?

I feel like what you've got is you've got
a new Republican party trying to emerge.

I think they're trying to be reasonable.

Uh, in the sense of some issues that
have been hardline right, you know, I

would say Christian nationalism that
really hasn't suited the broader body.

I think they're trying to get some
entrenched people out of the Republican

Party, like the Mitch McConnell's,
those kinds of people who are war

focused and all that kind of stuff.

And they're trying to minimize government.

And, uh, trying to close down borders.

There's, there's a lot of new Republicans
that are actually got fantastic, actually

well meaning America first policies.

Then I think what you've got on
the democratic side is you've

also got an emerging, uh, party
that really are playing to

personality bias, racial baiting.

I think it's very much appealing to
the American who was led by feelings.

So therefore for them policy.

Isn't paramount.

That's what we're seeing
with Kamala Harris.

That's why you don't even really know
her policy positions because to them It

doesn't matter if I can just play the
personality I win the person and I win

the vote And so the the thing that would
actually work against them would be

Revealing their policy positions because
then that would be able to create for

the Republican Party a counterpoint It's
interesting that Kamala has completely

flipped on any policies that she's
actually presenting right now It's

just a mirror of the Republican Party
Policy, and I think this is a tactic.

Let's do this Let's present similar
policies, but with go after the

personality and try and win But then
you know, you know Oh, she's going to

flip on everything she says because
they've got no problem with lying.

Now, why do I believe that the
Democrats have no problem with lying?

Because they, they push transgender,
uh, ideologies, pronouns.

If you look at Kamala's party,
you have nine pronouns that

you can identify yourself as.

Now, fundamentally as a man of God, I
believe that if I go along with someone's

pronouns, I'm in, I'm enforcing and
reinforcing a lie and I can't do that.

I need the truth.

You're, you're a male, you're
a female, there's two genders.

So.

So I think what we've got is them
have got no problem with telling one

thing but completely doing something
different once they get past November Mm

Arun: hmm.

I think goes into it.

Yeah, I would love to you touch on it
It goes into what you're saying about

not really having a stance and now
you're trying to just reach everybody

so you kind of shifting So yeah,

Ps Michelle: exactly.

So here's the thing.

Here's the thing.

Oh,

Arun: yeah,

Ps Michelle: I Lived in Chicago 20 2008.

Mm hmm Barack Obama got elected.

It took everything to meet me, not to
drive the 20 minutes to grant park and

be in that place and just celebrate
our first African American president.

Right.

And,

Ps Adam: and that was a big deal for you

Ps Michelle: being black, having
your background, being in law.

He was a professor at the law school.

I went to, it was, and I, and I, and I so
understand that sentiment of like, wow,

someone who looks like me in this nation.

Has achieved, and especially
being an immigrant, we like to it,

like had achieved the top, like
you're, you're the, literally the

most powerful man in the world.

And it's like, it gave hope.

I was, I did criminal defense.

And so some of the kids that were
in the detention center, I remember

like calling them the next day
and they were like, so inspired.

Like I'm going to change my life around
because I can see something, you know?

And so I do understand that.

And at the same time.

I have, I have had to go
on my own journey, right?

So I had to actually figure out for
myself, okay, what is, what are values

that I want to instill in my, and
especially becoming a mom, I think

that's when it changed me was I had
my girls and I'm raising three little

girls in the United States of America.

Right.

And so it's like, okay, what is the
country I want to leave to them?

And I hear the, um, what I've realized is.

There's a lot of talk.

There's a lot of I'm gonna use my
words to win your affections I'm

gonna use my words to win your
heart, but what actually happens on

the ground what actually happens in
City Council meetings What actually

happens at school boards of education?

What actually happens in the communities
itself is very different than what happens

on a national scale And when you see
those discrepancies we live in a highly

Democratic elected place and I work
day in and day out on homelessness on

outreach on feeding the poor like I'm in
the trenches I'm in the school districts

with the kids so I can see firsthand
what's happening And when the pop that's

why people are like, oh personality
policies personality is important.

He's so mean he's racist And
I'm just like I I hear that and

I get it like if I listen to
Michelle Obama's speech yesterday.

And it was a lot about
like appealing to us.

Like, how did your
mother raise you decency?

No name calling.

That is a mean man.

You know, and I couldn't, I could hear,
I get like, you know, you don't want

someone up there, but then the day
it's like, but, but what did you do?

She kept saying, do
something, do something.

And I, I want to be like, you do know
Kamala is the one currently in office.

Like, but like, it's, it's
just like, I've not had hope.

Like, I'm like, For the last
four years, it was your party.

So yeah, we too don't feel like we
have hope, you know, like, and, and I

say that cause it's like, okay, like,
can we not make this a, if you don't

vote for her, you're not really black.

You're not really a woman.

You're not really about, you know,
you don't care about the poor.

Like it was this divide between
wealth and, and everyone else.

It was like, at one point she mentioned,
and I, and I, I'm like, wait, what?

She was like, my mother didn't
even want to be wealthy.

And they were like, yeah,
I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.

I've been in, no, no, no.

When I go to the schools that are
low income communities, we're trying

to get them out of actually wealth.

I'm not saying you need to be a million,
but wealth is actually important.

Generational wealth is
actually part of it.

Like, let's not demonize
that and say like, let's all

now, no, it's actually worse

Ps Adam: that we're making heroes
out of people who are poor.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Ps Michelle: And that's what I can't say.

That's the part that just irked me.

It was like the victimization mentality.

It's like, as long as people,
minorities, you stay in this mindset

of oppression, then it's like, we
can, we can do whatever we want.

And we see it, like, even it's
like, we can give you hands outs.

We can, Oh, we're going to do that.

I mean, they were celebrating
this policy of like giving out

25, 000 if you rent for two years.

And so now you can become homeowners.

And so for the black community, we can
now finally, Oh, and I'm like, Where are

you getting 25, 000 for, and you, you do
know like the red tape, the paperwork,

Ps Adam: like, no, the 25,
000 is the contribution.

You still have to come up with 150, 000.

Ps Michelle: But all they're telling,
all they're saying, the policy I'm

hearing is you're going to get 25, 000.

To

Ps Adam: ward the down payment.

Right.

Pass that.

It's to ward.

Ps Michelle: I know.

Ps Adam: She's with

Arun: you and she's saying.

I'm saying what they're

Ps Michelle: marketing is you're about
to get, you elect this woman, you're

getting 25, 000 and they're, and then
it's like, oh my goodness, she's going

to give us money for housing and Trump
is calling us names and it's like.

You still have

Ps Adam: to have credit rating.

Yeah.

Arun: Yeah,

Ps Michelle: exactly.

Right.

Exactly.

And who's going to help
you with the credit rating?

Who's going to help you with all this?

And that's the thing about that I
had to realize is that we, it can't

be a black versus white versus like
electing someone because just because

there are black women and South
Asian women, biracial women, like I,

I, I just, I can't get behind that.

Mm hmm.

Because when you follow that thought
all the way down, it literally does.

perpetuate the very system that
we're saying we're trying to break,

which is race based inequalities.

And so if you're going to use the same
system that you're trying to use to

break the system, it doesn't work.

It's like, okay, I understand
that you feel like there is

oppression, but I I don't know.

I, when I look around at the circles,
like I was fortunate enough to come

to this country and I get it, there's
going to be like a whole thing of like,

well, you're an immigrant black, you're
not the same as like black, black.

And I'm like, there's all these
like ways we separate ourselves.

It's like, at what point
do we actually say like.

Like, you know what, what if for
our kids, it's, it's different now.

Right.

When does that happen?

Like, when do we say like,
okay, it's different now.

Yeah.

And now we can now operate from that
place of how do we actually empower?

And that's the word that is so missing
in any of these conversations that I'm

hearing from the current administration
is empowerment of people, not let's

get them out and have to handouts.

As much as you, you might hate him.

One thing Trump will tell
you over and over is let's

figure this out for yourself.

Like, let's actually, we'll, we'll get
you what you, but let's empower you.

And when we look at, we can talk about
HBCUs and look at what Obama did, which

HBCUs and look at what, like that, that
there's points that you actually can't

dispute because it's actual facts, but
it's like, I don't know that as a nation

because of the history and how emotional
it can get, um, about it, that we can

actually, to your point, have those like.

Academic conversations of let's
actually talk about this policy,

Ps Adam: right?

So I think, but I do think that when two
things can be true, I think policy matter,

but I do think personality matters.

Arun: Yeah.

Ps Adam: Even as someone who's
very conservative, I think

a personality does matter.

So if I was critiquing, uh, the Republican
party, it does confuse me as to why.

There isn't a greater agreement
of let's cool off maybe on some of

the directed, maybe name calling.

Let's, let's really push what's in
our favor is we've got great policies.

Yeah.

So that is confusing.

Okay.

But I think when I come down to it, I
go, okay, do I have in the personalities?

Do I have someone who's at least,
um, maybe too honest in their

name calling that there, I see.

All their cards.

Do you think

Ps Michelle: Trump is racist?

Ps Adam: No, I don't think he's racist.

I think he's a very, he, if you
go after him, he goes after you.

So they've weaponized the, the DOJ against
him and he's really mad about that.

Yeah.

So, and he knows that specifically
Kamala is right behind that.

So I feel like he feels warranted
in his, we're in a fight.

So I'm going to fight.

But when

Ps Michelle: he's going after her being
like, well, I don't know if she's Indian.

I don't know if she's black.

Ps Adam: I think that he's speaking
what a lot of people are thinking.

Because yeah, she never
came out as a black person.

She had previously come out as
touting her Indian heritage.

Arun: I just want to ask you,
I'll ask you a question on that.

Yeah.

Do you think that matters?

Like, do you want your
president to even touch on that?

That's my point.

Like,

Ps Michelle: why is he, what's,

Arun: what is it?

Because I actually have been
hearing Trump because he knows,

Ps Adam: because he knows what's
about to happen is they're going

to parade to the black community
who is a significant voter base.

This is your person.

She's all of a sudden black female.

So it's Obama 2.

0.

So they're going to win the
black community, not on policy,

not on promise, but on the fact
that she's your only candidate.

So he's pulling the thread of,
wow, isn't it convenient now to

code switch when it suits you?

But where were you touting that
before when it didn't suit you?

Okay.

So I don't.

No, I don't think he's racist.

I think he's just pulling the
thread that everyone's, Oh, racist.

Oh, look at that.

Are we, are we really unable to talk
about things in our country that

people are claiming and code switching
and come on, let's be obvious.

How come her language has changed?

How come her accent has changed
because she's playing, she's

placating to a, a voter base.

I just don't

Ps Michelle: think it's his place to
point that out is what I would say.

Ps Adam: It's

Ps Michelle: like,

Ps Adam: I definitely think it's
who, whose, whose place is it?

Ps Michelle: We'll see it.

The community sees it.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Arun: But if you don't play fire
with fire, is that your point?

If you have to play fire
with fire, he's the one who's

Ps Adam: being interviewed.

So he's leave it to the voter
base to bring that up at a

Ps Michelle: black journalist.

You're you're in the black
room with journalists.

That is not the time or the place to
point out I don't think she's black.

Okay, so

Ps Adam: my point is this it's
already a complicated issue.

Okay You're getting to my point.

Yeah, if he played different person
on different stages, I would have less

respect It's the fact that he's the
same Okay, that's what i'm saying.

So what i'm looking at is is
he is I think he's honest.

Yeah.

And we've got a hypocrite
on the other side.

Yeah.

Okay.

So you've got someone who is blatantly
lying, hypocritical, and we've got

someone at least who's honest, even if it
actually is not the smartest thing to say.

Yeah.

At least I go, Hey, you're
going to get what you get.

You might not like what you get, but you
get, you know what you're going to get.

And he's going to do what he
says, as opposed to someone who's

going to tickle my ears and tell
me stuff and then do nothing.

Ps Michelle: Yeah.

But here's what I think.

I think the democratic party is doing
maybe a bit better on that point is

they are painting a vision of America
that on the surface, whether or not

we can, you know, the actual policies
they're going to push to get their work.

That sounds like what we would want.

We want a place where

Ps Adam: decency rules.

I don't know.

I don't agree with that.

I think there is a class of society
that that's what they care about.

Decency, there is a, there is not
even a class, I think a segment of

society that they're in their bubble.

So they just want decency, but
there is a segment of society that

knows we're at world war threats.

Arun: Yeah.

Ps Adam: So I don't want a decency leader.

I don't want to, I want a leader
that is going to be pretty

aggressive against our adversaries.

I think there is a intelligent level
of society that is like, we do not

need kind words in the White House.

When it comes against Putin or, you
know, Hamas or whatever it is, we

need someone who is intimidating.

Ps Michelle: Yeah.

That's the one.

That's a good point because the president,
the executive, the presidential role

specifically, their main, I would
say their main power is external

domestic policy is at Congress.

It's at your local, it's at the state
level when you're electing, you're right.

The president isn't, who's going
to really push the decency card.

No, it's actually.

Your home training is
happening at home, right?

The

Ps Adam: state leader is going
to be the person who needs to be

the decent, nice person because
he's, he's your representative.

But

Ps Michelle: at the same time, we do
know that leaders are important to who

people look up to and aspire to be.

And so I think that decency card is
probably coming from that perspective

of, yeah, you want your leader to be
bold and, and, you know, you want Put

your nation first in the way it matters,
but also to inspire people to want to

be Kind and caring all these things
that do make a society better to live in

Arun: Okay, I want to take
this podcast in a certain

direction before we look forward.

We have data.

I'm a data kind of guy.

We have some data.

I want to reflect on the
four years from both.

Yeah, I want to, I want to
see what you guys thought.

If you guys like take a step back, reflect
on the four years of Trump, reflect on

the four years of Biden, and then kind
of the pros and cons of both terms.

And then let's go forward in
terms of what picture both

parties are trying to now paint.

So let's go over the
first four years of Trump.

What do you guys both see?

What do you remember?

Biggest takeaways have

Ps Adam: to be no wars.

Okay.

Uh, foreign stability.

And I would say, um, a, a progress
towards fortifying our border.

And I'd say the last one would be economy.

Arun: So the little pros again,

Ps Adam: they're, they're
the four pros for me.

Yeah.

I'll

Ps Michelle: agree.

I'll agree.

I think there was definitely, um, I
do remember though, in terms of the

stability, there were moments like
with North Korea, um, where, where we

Literally, at least from the media,
it looked like we were on the verge

of World War III because he seemed a
little unhinged, a little unstable.

But I think in hindsight, when
you look back, you're like, but

we actually didn't go to war.

It didn't, in the moment, it
didn't feel like we were unstable.

we had moments, right?

Arun: We had moments of being on the verge
of, but it felt like maybe that's what

you want is your president to be like, I'm
crazy enough to go, but maybe I won't go.

I mean,

Ps Adam: he's crazy enough to
walk across a border where no

one But it was mad respect.

Yeah, it's like I am we're America.

Arun: Mm hmm.

Yeah, we need a powerful
country All right.

So those are the pros and other cons

Ps Adam: I think the cons
were obviously some civil, uh,

divides that were fortified.

I think that there was, um, uh,
opinions, um, that were put out there.

I think the, the mean tweets
definitely were a negative, um, that

I think what lost a lot of respect.

And I think this is where it's in.

Can I respect this leader?

Um, you know, I think that that for
me would probably be the, the, the

The overshadowing of the negative
side was probably the presentation.

Um, it wasn't, didn't feel like a
unifying of people now at the same time.

If, if I was just to use that point,
that's what Biden came in promising.

I'm going to bring.

The country together, but it
was actually the opposite.

It was definitely a vilifying of
anybody who was mega Republican.

It was a vilifying of
anybody who followed them.

He made them the worst people in
America and moved towards every

liberal, liberal ideology and made
heroes out of transgender confused,

sick people, put them into places
of prominence in the white house.

Uh, DEI hires.

All that kind of stuff.

And so it was actually a further
divide than the mean tweets.

Ps Michelle: Um, so going back, I
agree with the negative, cause if

you think about it, towards the end
of Trump's term was 2020 and COVID.

So part of it I'm trying to analyze is
like, it kind of, the world fundamentally

changed in his last, in his last year.

Right.

Um, and I think what we saw that summer
was probably a reflection of a pent up.

Like, I mean, for sure, but
like the writing, the, just,

there was no outlet, I think.

And you had a lot of people that felt
frustrated with the name calling,

with the mean tweets, with the, um,
I think it definitely did embolder

the crazies, racist people out there.

It did.

You know, I think it did.

I look

Ps Adam: back at the, I look back at the
race riots or the George Floyd riots,

that era, whatever you want to call it.

I feel like there were way
more opportunists than public.

I don't think the mass public were
writing and they were pent up.

I see a lot of people who were very
much anarchists and opportunists

to get out there and love to
jump on a rioting bandwagon.

Chaos agents.

Chaos agents.

Let me clarify

Ps Michelle: too, when I say riots, I,
yes, the physical riots, but I think

there was a lot of emotional rioting
that was happening in terms of like,

People of color, even if they weren't
physically on the streets, like you

had workplaces holding reconciliation
meetings, you had churches holding record.

We had people out there
apologizing for things.

I, the amount of apologies I got
in 2020, I said, Oh my, and then at

some point I'm like, yeah, actually,
you know, it literally for a second,

we, It got to a really dark place.

And that's what I'm

Ps Adam: saying.

I feel like the black
community were lied to.

I feel like it put By who?

By themselves a lot of the time.

What do you mean?

Okay.

So I feel like what we've got
is we've got, uh, it divided

definitely, uh, brother against
brother, sister against sister.

I feel like there was even people
in the black community that were

going, Hey, we've gone too far and
like, no, we're not far enough.

And so there was, there became an
infighting even within the black

community that people were being
divided against and lying to each other.

I feel like you're owed restitution.

You're owed reparations.

Really?

Yeah.

Okay.

Um, or is it my ancestors may,
may have some, uh, some beef with

that, but I've actually lived in a
country where I've had opportunity.

Well, I've actually excelled that I
broke out of my background and my mold.

So I just feel like everything was
heightened and has been heightened.

And it's your, um, you said it is the
emotions that are getting played too.

And this is what we S we've seen just
this week at the DNC is still, let's

keep Stroke in that emotional card.

Let's keep playing to our
lowest level life instead of

calling us to higher values.

Arun: Do you want to respond to that?

Cause I have one meta
question before that.

Do you want to respond to that?

Okay.

I want to ask during that period,
do you feel like that's where the

leadership and the stability comes from
is you need that central point, kind

of like a household with your kids.

Your kids are fighting.

They need to look for that kind
of person at the top that tells

you, all right, calm it down.

Let's find middle ground.

Let's sort it out.

Where it's like, it felt
like what he did was more of.

You know, I want
everybody to have a voice.

I'm gonna say whatever's on my mind.

You guys say whatever's on your mind.

But there was no, how do I unify
that and put it in like a very

practical, you know, way that you
can use it because I think it's good.

I think we got to a place where now nobody
can talk and it's like this weird thing.

We're on this soft, like
we're walking on eggshells.

I hate that.

I want to get back to talking.

I want to get back to talking.

Like these are great conversations.

Yeah, nobody should get offended.

But it's like, how do you
do it in a way that's fun?

It's respectable and kind of, you
can actually progress somewhere.

Yeah.

Ps Adam: Yeah.

I mean, personally, I think that the
reason people don't talk like this is

because they worried about being canceled.

Yeah.

They're so worried about even saying
a black or white because they're

like, Oh, am I saying the right words?

No, no.

I mean, if you've got the wrong
heart emotions, then you probably

aren't going to say the wrong words,
but if your heart is right, you'll

actually talk about it like it is.

So that's where I feel like the buy in is.

I think.

Do we need to answer your question?

That's all about bringing calm.

I think in moments of war, I think that
calm voice is needed when people are lost.

I think in other times that that
leader needs to break us out of

maybe some bad I think like a father
has a calming voice and a father

has a stern voice in a household.

A father's job is not just,
hey, calm down everyone.

No, a father's like, guys,
we're going to be better.

Clean your room.

Fix up your act.

Stop this.

And his whole mission going into
office was to drain the swamp.

The swamp that was existing.

In uh, the deep state the the swamp that
was existing in politics that most people

were unaware of Unless you were exposed
to a certain level of leaders that were

literally controlling the party beyond
the figurehead of the president And

people don't understand that he wasn't
fighting the people who's fighting the

swamp But people took it personally
and the media did a brilliant job Of

actually taking his words and making
them at the people Rather than what

the, what I believe they're directed
was that the bad actors in politics.

Ps Michelle: Yeah, I think to your
question too, Arun about like, how

do we have these conversations?

I think, so part of the reason why Pastor
Adam can sit next to me right now and

say, I think black people will lie too.

And I'm not up here being like,
well, as a white man, what gives

you the right, it's because Pastor
Adam's life has proved he empowers.

Everybody.

And I've seen people of color
under his leadership thrive.

Their kids are healthy.

They are strong.

He's built a church.

And I think sometimes what, what is
missed when we sort of say certain

people can't speak to certain things
because of, you know, You know, their

backgrounds, I've had people tell me
like, Michelle, you can't speak to that

because you didn't grow up in the US.

And so since your ancestors weren't
slaves, they were in Africa and

they missed the boat to come over.

Um, then you can't say so.

And I'm just, I think we miss like
the beauty of Hearing other people out

and being like look At the end of the
day like before I call you a racist

actually look at their lives and I know
people are gonna say well racism is

not individuals as the systems oppose,
but i'm like you know, there's there's

a point where You actually have to be
like, uh I just, I need us to like,

words can need to mean what they mean.

Like that's the first fundamental thing
is we've, we're in a day and age where

like language can be whatever it is.

And so let alone try
and have a conversation.

So if I say the word racist and you
said, and it means two different things,

we're not having the right conversation,
but I think for me and I, and I really

know for a lot of, I'm not speaking on
behalf of all the black community, but

I do have a lot of black friends, you
know, um, I think there is something

For the black community, love work,
love languages, deeds, like for so

many years, we've had communities
come in and say all these things,

but show us what you're going to do.

And I've found, and I know people who
are Democrats that are voting for Trump.

I know people that are black Democrats
voting for Trump, not because they love

black people less, not because all of
us, but they realize, show me your deeds.

You can say whatever you want to me.

You can make me feel good.

You can make, but then the day, if.

Your deeds don't back it up.

And so when pasta Adam talks about certain
things from the platform and he rarely

does, but like, Oh, in this podcast and
you get offended, it's like, I need you

to show me how many hundreds of black
people you've empowered because this

man next to me has empowered hundreds
and hundreds, but this is what I mean,

Ps Adam: but this is what gives
me hope is that there are a lot

of people who are waking up to
the lie that they've been lied to.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They've been lied to.

Hey, if you, if you're black vote blue
because the democratic party is the

only party that cares for black people.

But guess what?

Nothing has changed.

So they've believed a lie.

They've been lied to.

But now there are a lot of people waking
up going, hang on, your words are empty.

We've been voting blue
and nothing has changed.

Maybe it's time we actually
start voting differently.

Yeah.

I get so much hope that people are waking
up to the lie that they've been lied to.

So, for me, um, and I
think, can I just say this?

I feel like we waste, we just throw
the word racist around so loosely

that it actually doesn't hold.

The, the damage that real
racism actually does.

I feel like we've watered down racism to
a comment or to something that you don't

agree with, and we can just go racist.

No, no, that's actually not
even on the scale of racism.

Racism is one of the worst.

Possible things it is so vile.

It is literally ancient and I think that
we need to it's demonic We need to bring

it back to the level that we hold that
like, you know, like, um I don't know

many people will say the word hate because
we know how powerful the word hate is.

Yeah, but we've we've Racism
needs to get back to that level.

Yeah that it's in the same world world
as hatred And I think that we need to

actually Be honest in our assessment
of is that a racist thing or not?

Yeah,

Arun: you keep throwing
it around too much.

You'll minimize it The actual impact
of what truly it means to be exactly.

Yeah, that's a really good point So
actually I want to take this the next

step to the next four years and reflect
on you know Those those questions Um,

lies that maybe, you know, we're kind
of exposed over those four years.

If you had to reflect on the Biden
administration these last four

years, what would you guys say?

Pros and cons leading into it?

Ps Michelle: Biggest lie.

Arun: Yeah.

Ps Michelle: I know.

Not biggest, but one of the lies.

Can you educate us

Arun: also on what lies were told?

Like kind of like, what would do
they promise and what did they

not give for people like me that
are a little bit more uneducated?

Honestly, honestly, it's
people that don't care.

Yeah.

People who don't care.

Yeah.

Ps Michelle: Oh, oh.

Um,

Arun: sorry if I put you on the spot.

Yeah.

Ps Michelle: Yeah.

I mean.

The biggest one that I, uh, do I go there?

Um, let's talk about reproductive freedom.

Okay.

I think, um, one of the masterful
things that this administration has

done, specifically Kamala Harris, is
made what is murder sound like murder.

Freedom.

Mm hmm.

And what has happened now is I've
heard people jump on that bandwagon

to the point where they themselves
would never get an abortion.

They themselves would never
recommend anyone to get an abortion.

Um, they themselves, and people
that have had abortions, I said,

is the worst thing I've ever done.

However, because it's been presented as.

What's happening on the other side
is they want to take away a woman's

right to control her body And so when
you hear that then you think oh heck.

No, i'm not trying to do that So let me
jump on all these policies Oh, it's going

to stop a person being able to choose when
they're going to have babies all these

different things um, and i'm just going to
be real practical so it's like We want to

allow reproductive freedoms You should be
able to choose if you want to have a child

or not if you want to have an abortion at
any point The state of California, which

I would argue is one of the most liberal
areas, um, it touts itself as the, what

would they call it, reproductive freedom
haven, like you, if your state can't let

you come to California, we'll let you.

Even the state of California has a point
when it says, hey, as the state, we

don't think, You are able to terminate
this pregnancy in the in the policies.

They call it the age of viability Um,
which is around 24 weeks So basically when

this we believe the baby can live outside
with current modern science Then it's an

actual life criminal law in california
if you kill a woman that's pregnant,

um, and at that point, I don't believe
there's a Lower end of it, but yet so

the woman has to know she's pregnant.

So usually it's probably
at least six weeks, right?

You You are, you are charged
with double homicide.

So it's the internally within the system
we have here, there's a point where

we think the thing inside that woman's
body deserves independent rights alone.

No, no place do we say
unfettered woman, right?

To choose no place.

Do we say a woman has an
unmitigated ability to determine

what happens to her body?

Because we realize at some
point there are two lives.

What we really need to be debating
is what is that point in the state of

California, we say 24 weeks, some of us
believe it's the point of conception,

but at some, like, that's really, that's,
it's not a woman's right to choose

versus a state's going to control a body.

It's actually the debate should be, what
point do we recognize the life inside

of that body as an independent life?

And I can have that academic,
academic conversation with you.

But I think that's, I use
that as an example of like.

Like what has done is an emotional plea of
getting to people to be so riled up about

a woman's right to choose a woman's right.

And so now you're, if you're not
voting for that, you're anti woman,

like an entire gender you are against.

If you're not voting for that
and you have to ask, why are you

pushing that agenda so, so hard?

Why are you, why can't I just
have a different opinion?

And like, actually.

I think, and I want to live in a
state that says, Hey, if you can,

if you can detect a heartbeat,
maybe let's not kill the baby.

Like, you know, there's like some, you
can have some like take, I'm taking away

like the faith aspects for just a second.

Even though I know I'm passing,
there's a whole lot of this aspect.

But even if you, if that's the, that
makes more sense, you know, as a, as a

logical, then just to say an unfettered
right to choose what happens to your

body, and that's what we're going to push.

And so when people hear like, well, the,
you know, their policies, it's not mean

it's not, they just want people to choose.

Like you can just not choose it.

It's like, Oh, actually
it's conflating issues.

They conflate a lot of issues together.

And so I've seen that happen.

I think the department of
education is a hot mess.

com.

I think a lot of the Paul, like.

Education is a very complicated and
I'm not, you know, going to say I'm

the expert, but I do know it doesn't
work where you have federal level.

Funding that is controlled at the federal
level and you're able to then decide

what the states will get based on what?

Curriculars based on what
testing base and then you've

got it doesn't it doesn't work,

Arun: you know

Ps Michelle: And I think like when
you hear all they want to shut

down the Department of you know
Education and be like, oh my gosh,

I'm like, yeah Do you actually know
how education works in the country?

It's, they're not saying no education.

They're saying, let's actually
empower the people that know

Arun: the people

Ps Michelle: that went to school to
study what education let's empower

them with the decision making instead
of bureaucrats in DC deciding.

So anyway, I, sorry.

Arun: No, that's great.

So smart, so smart.

That's fantastic.

That's why we're very excited
to have you on the podcast.

That's why I hired her.

Um,

Ps Adam: no, but I
think I can add to that.

Um, cause I mean, I
agree with all of that.

I would have said pretty
much exactly the same thing.

I think the, uh, the thing that
frustrates me probably about, uh,

Biden's, uh, administration is just
the utter hypocrisy that it must be so

confusing to be a Democrat to believe.

What do we believe now?

Because we don't believe.

Well, we can define a woman,
but yet now we're advocating

our first woman president.

Okay.

So, so there is, there has, you,
you have to do mental gymnastics

all the time to, to kind of tote
the, the, the party flag, right?

It's like, well, what do we believe now?

And, and, and tell me
what else to believe.

And I feel like that's the party
is tell me what I need to say.

Tell me what I need to believe.

Whereas, That would just be really
stupid of me to even try and keep up

with what are we, what are we saying?

And that's what I feel like
the democratic party does.

It's like I have to toe the line.

So tell me what i'm saying now Uh,
but I think one of the other biggest

things is just the utter disregard
for our country and its safety.

I think the selling off parts of the
border wall that didn't get finished

under the trump administration And selling
the leftover metal as scrap Only to now

have to try and find Money to build it.

It's such a disregard for our
nation, just at a spiteful level

of going, I'm going to not do what
the previous administration began.

I just feel like that
is very disrespectful.

I think it's disrespectful
to the American taxpayer who

invested so much money into that.

And then just to realize later that.

Oh, we've now got a hot mess.

Well, we've got what is it 20 million
illegal immigrants that have come across

the border during their administration
That and that might be underplaying

the actual amount And to know that
there are known terrorists that have

infiltrated that group that that now
puts my family at risk So even and then

there are many points That would, would
make me not be able to vote Democrat,

but that one, you put my family at risk.

Um, I think that that is one
of the, probably the worst

acts of the administration.

Arun: Yeah, actually, it's
very curious just listening to

you guys both talk about this.

Very educational, by the way.

Um, it feels like there's
this through line of, for that

party to just open everything.

We want to just be all inclusive.

We want to make sure, if you
feel like it, you can do it.

If you want to be in, you can get in.

But it almost Instead of it just
being, it almost creates more

confusion, like you now don't
know, there's just too much, right?

There's just, oh, I can be any gender now?

Okay, great, maybe I do
want to be any gender.

And it's like this confusion is
actually worse for our country

than it, you need restrictions.

And we go back to this like,
parenthood thing, right?

Really, that's how I feel about this.

Well, kids

Ps Adam: thrive under boundaries.

Yeah, you need it.

So kids are secure when
there's boundaries.

When there is no boundaries in
the home, a kid doesn't prove,

Feeling more secure, more loved.

They feel less loved.

So the Bible says, if you love
your children, discipline them.

So discipline is actually love.

God loves us.

That's why he disciplines us.

Arun: That's so important.

Ps Adam: Oh no.

Ps Michelle: Well said.

I think like, no, absolutely brilliant.

I feel like on immigration specifically.

So I came here and F1 student visa went
from F1 to OPT from OPT to H1B from H1B.

I went through all the, it was,
uh, arduous progress process for

me to, to Over time and I was, you
know, highly educated in the us.

Um, and you know, at some point
it was like, why is it taking so

long to go through this process?

Mm-Hmm.

. But after you go through the, and look,
there are so much that can be fixed.

Yeah.

For, I believe like there's a policy
being at least presented that if

you get your, you know, higher
education here, that was fantastic.

I said, you are, yeah.

You vote . That in itself one
issue, , like if you, but, but,

but then you realize like, if.

To your point you said it so brilliantly
like over inclusion does not mean harmony

I think there's this lie that's been
told that if we're just inclusive and

everyone comes everyone's just gonna
behave and act Well, and you realize

kamala was a prosecutor in california.

We could talk about her record if we want
to Um, but at some point you realize there

are bad actors in this world, and I think
there is a night Naivete maybe among us

that we want to just believe The goodness
of humanity, but, and as soon as you hear

there are restrictions and maybe there's
a reason why we, then you're like, wait,

wait, wait, why are we being so mean,
quote, unquote, but it is like there,

and that's one thing I want to just let
me emphasize too, is that it might help

people to not necessarily look at this as
like Democrats versus Republican, right?

Because I actually believe, and I can
go down a deep conspiracy, I actually

think there's an underlying Element deep
state government that is actually we've

talked about on the pod So if you think
that perspective, it's like okay if the

media like there's a lot of different
Aspects to pushing what they actually

want to happen It doesn't matter if it's
blue or red at some point the republican

party was pretty it's good or versus
evil And at some point there was good

and that's what though is evil And if
you think of it from that perspective of

like, oh, there's actually some things
that are right and wrong It helps sort

of, I think, demystify and take away the
emotional of like, Well, I'm a Democrat

and I'm always going to vote Democrat.

It's like, actually, no, actually look
at what's happening on the ground.

Look at states that are
democratically controlled.

Come to California.

Let's go to, let's take a tour of Oakland.

Let's take a tour of San Francisco.

Let's go ahead and just actually sit.

And, and let me see another
picture of Gavin Newsom picking

up a piece of tent by himself.

Cause with nobody, with no one,
just him, just him out there.

Ps Adam: After spending 20 billion.

With a B.

Mm hmm.

20 billion.

Wow.

Ps Michelle: Look, if I was,
if I was a, if you gave me 20

billion, I can do this job.

And I was like,

Ps Adam: no, no, no, no.

If I gave you a thousand dollars and
you were the one I'm like, where's

that thousand dollars you could have
recruited 40 team people for an hour.

Ps Michelle: Yeah.

I just, I, so you, you, you
have to then be like, okay.

Why we're coming so hard on the democratic
party is again, looking at deeds.

But is

Ps Adam: propaganda still like
such a powerful tool that there

is a mass amount of people.

There's a beautiful clip out there,
um, for back from the pandemic.

And there's this reporter
talking to this guy.

I wish I could pull these things up.

Like, yeah, we'll describe it.

It's this, it's this, it's almost like
this ex old Navy, uh, Ranger or like,

um, uh, I don't know, like a Navy
seal and they're interviewing him.

Like, what would you like to say
to all the people that got the jab?

Are you calling them What
would you like to say to them?

And he says, uh, I understand,
I can talk their language.

Let me talk to them.

And he goes, bah, bah, bah.

And he starts barring like a sheep.

And the guy goes, so are
you calling them stupid?

And he goes, no.

Just like don't care about being
canceled because, but I, but I

think there are a lot of people
that just go with what they're told.

We saw that in the pandemic, we
had to get first shot, second shot,

third shot boosters, and people were
like, Oh, what else do I need to do?

Tell me what to do.

So propaganda works.

And so.

I don't know what it takes for
people to literally wake up to, am

I going to believe the media or am I
actually going to start to think for

myself and what works for my family?

Let me play out.

These policies, let me play
out another four years of this.

Let me play it out.

Did it get better

Arun: or did it get worse?

I want to really stay on this because
I should think this is probably one

of the biggest problems that we have
today is that the systems are in place

for us not to think for ourselves.

And I think that's like the biggest.

So I would actually love for
you guys to both touch on that.

How do you guys, cause like obviously you
guys think for yourself, how do you break

out of that for people that are listening?

How do you like really empower yourself
to think for yourself and then get

other people to think for themselves?

Cause I think more people
want to be told what to do.

And this has been my Apple versus
Android debate, and we can go there,

but people really don't like choices.

They just want to be told this
is the way that you should do it.

And they just want to do it.

Ps Adam: No, I think, I think there
was a lot of people that I agree

with you that do not like choices.

Just let's make this easy.

This will make it all go away.

Arun: Yeah.

Ps Adam: Yeah.

Ostrich syndrome.

Let me put the head in the sand
and tell me when it's over.

They're the people who
don't vote either party.

They waste a vote.

Um, I'm just going to go to work and say
the dumbest thing you can do is say I

don't like either party so I'm not voting.

Okay, well, you don't exist as a citizen
that your citizen right is to help

determine the future of the country So
if you don't like either start to educate

on which one you like less than the other
Okay, at least and it's not personality.

It's policy.

What's gonna benefit my family
I would say most people start

caring when they get a mortgage

Arun: I've heard that for that argument

Ps Adam: because the moment you get a
mortgage, ideals go out the window because

you've got to pay this every month.

And now all of a sudden you want
you, you care about how much tax

you're paying more than ever.

You care about what your
kids are going to inherit.

You care about your little patch of
freedom that is owned by you in this land.

And so all of a sudden a
mortgage begins to change.

What, how did these policies affect me?

Because generally after a mortgage
is when you get kids and then when

you get kids, you think about their
future in the world they'll inherit.

And it's not just about when you're a
teenager and it's like, you know, free

love and niceness and all that kind of
stuff, actually things begin to matter.

Beyond, uh, maybe a personality,

Arun: but I will say mortgage is part
of that system that keeps you locked in.

So now you're, it's, it's a
system provided to keep you under

loan for a long period of time.

And now you're, that's
one way to look at it.

Ps Adam: That's a very
basic way to look at it.

So you can look at it as a system.

Or an opportunity.

Okay.

So I have got in America, I
have got this beautiful system

called the free market system.

What I do is I want to get a broad of
assets that will actually create capital

gains because the market is increasing.

So if I see my mortgage as 30 years locked
in, okay, or can I leverage that debt and

the equity to actually maybe launch into
a second market, start to get a, A, um,

a proper set of properties, not just one
property and actually begin to work that

as a tax write off all these different
things that I have to my advantage.

If I educate myself, the
tax system is not a penalty.

The tax system is a game.

It's a game that the smart people
who educate themselves on tax, learn

how to use it for their advantage.

Arun: That's what I'm just going to say.

No, no, no.

I agree.

I think that's the difference, right?

But I think most people would fall
into the camp in the sheep category.

So if you're a

Ps Adam: sheep, you think.

Oh, I've got to pay tax.

Now I'm locked in.

And if we go back to the education
system, the education system is

more of a, uh, a locked in system
than I would say the tax system is.

So the education belief is that I've
got to do all these years of, of school.

Then I've got to go to
four years of college.

Um, and most of the time, the people
who actually go to four years of

college are so sick of the education.

it was a liberal arts degree or something
that actually doesn't really benefit them.

It actually puts them
at no advantage in life.

Whereas the person who actually
was entrepreneurial in the free

market system of America used
the system to their advantage.

They got out of that situation.

Um, and then they got into the free
market system and they learned a skill.

They put their skills to work.

Actually what I call a
skill is not an education.

That's only a skill when it starts
paying you money for that thing.

Okay, so you can develop a skill quicker
that you can actually start making revenue

from that is a far more advantageous
skill than a four year degree.

Ps Michelle: I think we have to
fundamentally get a disdain for allowing

someone to tell us how to think.

Our minds is one place that
nobody should be able to control.

And that's why I, to your point earlier,
it's like, there is this, um, I don't

know that people don't want choice.

I think they want to be
able to know how to choose.

Yeah, that's a real better way.

You know what I mean?

Cause I think if you, if they had like
a cheat code or they had like a way

to be able to distill the information.

So I think if you, if you first
have to realize like, okay,

first of all, Am I just being
told what to think all the time?

Yeah, and I love, but that
happens on the right and the left.

Yeah.

No, for sure.

Think exists.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And that's why I'm like, I would
be like, are you Republican?

I'm like neither.

Not neither.

Like, I'm actually coming to these
decisions as an independent thinker.

I'm using the mind

Arun: that I've

Ps Michelle: been given to be able to
make a decision, which allows me to say,

I'm going to vote for this person here.

And also not be associated
with, you know what I mean?

Like you get to be able
to think for yourself.

It's not, it's not,
it's not all or nothing.

And I think we've lost that.

And we've used nuance for the wrong thing.

It's like, I want to be able to be
nuanced so I can just allow all inclusion.

It's like, that's not what nuance is for.

I think

Ps Adam: groupthink is there because we,
we inadvertently want to rally people to

reinforce that I made the right decision.

Yeah.

So that's why we want groupthink.

I was listening to something that
Joe Rogan was talking about a

podcast the other day and it seems
like he keeps selling Austin.

He's moved to Austin and he tells
people, when are you moving here?

And he keeps advocating and he keeps
like asking, when are you moving here?

When are you leaving California?

And it's like, Oh, do you need people
to move there to reinforce that that was

the smart decision or you now regretting
that decision, but I'm, I'm locked in.

So I need to reinforce that
this is the right decision.

Huh?

Everyone's moving here.

Huh?

Yes.

Whereas most of the people have
moved to Austin have now moved out.

Yep.

Cause they're like the weather sucks.

Yep.

Uh, and yeah, the politics suck in
California, but you cannot substitute.

The weather, there ain't no place on
earth, like, like California weather.

Uh, and so I think that, um, you
know, I think we like group thing.

Cause we want people to reinforce
you made the right decision.

Yes.

Yes.

And

Ps Michelle: that's where, that's
why council culture is so powerful

is because the moment we can show
that, Hey, you're, you're other.

Ps Adam: Yeah.

So I think people thinking for
themselves is true freedom.

Yes.

Because dangerous thing.

I can think what I think.

And if you don't agree,
that's fine with me.

That's fine by me.

Yeah.

Yes.

I don't need you to reinforce that
I made the right decision because I

know I made the right decision for me.

Arun: Yeah, that's really okay.

So now with the last segment of our
pod, I want to just think forward now.

Yeah, it went by really quick and I
want to make sure I get this in because.

I think we've talked about, and I
think it's really about what you do,

like the issues that really matter.

Let's kind of like strip everything away.

So looking forward, what would you
guys want to, even if it's for people

like me, that are like, okay, yeah,
these are really interesting topics.

Maybe I should look more into

Ps Adam: it.

Arun: I have actually, my eyes are open.

I'm thinking now.

But what would you guys say?

Like, what do you like looking forward?

That's my goat.

That's my goat.

One day.

One day.

I really like him.

Why?

Because he's Indian?

Yeah.

I didn't learn anything.

I didn't learn anything.

We've achieved

Ps Adam: nothing.

We've achieved nothing.

Sorry.

Arun: Sorry.

My bad.

My bad.

I like the way he speaks and the issues.

I don't know any of them, but I like it.

I really do.

But yeah, looking forward.

Looking forward.

What do you guys want to see?

What are the big issues for you
guys that you want to see changed?

Ps Adam: I mean, it's pretty,
it's pretty simple for me.

Um, I don't, I don't like war, so I
don't think we should be driving the

war machine and we've got war machinists
that, um, exist in the government.

Um, I don't think we should, I, as
an immigrant myself, uh, and to,

uh, Pastor Michelle's point before
the process that I went to, to, uh,

move to America and to go through it
legally, um, it was a rigorous process.

An expensive process, but I love
the fact that I did it legally.

I love the fact that I upheld the
law, that I'm not a liar or cheater.

I've got integrity.

So I think that, uh, having a border,
uh, policy and I say a border policy,

not just a border wall, I think we
need a better border policy because I

do think that there are people that.

Uh, do not have the advantages
that maybe I had of education

status, uh, level and financial
means to, to make the immigration.

But can we have a better policy
that assesses people quicker

without all the red tape?

Because it does take some
obscene amount of time.

And I think we need to, maybe
it's, I'm not saying more a liberal

policy, but a better policy and a
better procedure that can actually

have a more efficient government.

And I think a more efficient
government is a big one.

So we need to get rid of deep
state I definitely think we need

to um Minimize the government.

I think a lot of the things that I I love
Uh through even elon and donald trump's

conversation was about reducing the
government I think having smart people

like elon on there to to try and look at
what is waste in the government How are

we going to deal with our debt ceiling?

What's our plan to get?

Uh, debt minimized instead of just
spending more, I think inflation

or the economics that's big.

That's big for me.

Ps Michelle: Yep.

I agree.

I think, um, I, I want to see us be more
about America than the rest of the world.

We did not do good being
umpire to the world.

I think there is an arrogance that
America has sort of walked in for a while.

We're losing credibility.

You know, if your home life is looking
like a hot mess, you can't go to

another nation and say, Hey, we're going
to come here and help you clean up.

And they're looking at you like.

Yeah, people who sleep on the streets
like we do, you know, like, so I

think it's, let's actually to your
point, let's not get into another war.

Let's repurpose all those
fundings to domestic use.

Um, I, I believe America can be
the most prosperous nation where

every citizen has enough to live on.

You, you, you.

No one here should be without food
without shelter without you know, I

mean like there's actual things and so
I think Looking at policies that really

do focus on America first Making America
the greatest nation in the world to

live in and I think there are Countries
that are light years ahead of us in a

lot of areas, um, when it comes to even
family, welfare, welfare, all of that,

like, you know, mental institutions,

Ps Adam: mental institutions,

Ps Michelle: how we pay taxes,
there are countries where literally

you can calculate exactly how
you pay a tax in five minutes

and pay it's like the efficiency.

And I'm like, why are we,
why are we so archaic here?

You know?

And I think, so I, I think the education
system is the other area for me.

I think we really need to take a look
at that and look at to your point

four year institutions are starting
to fail Like I don't is that the I

know ivy league college system and all
of that culture is really big here.

Yeah, but It doesn't, it's not
producing what we need it to produce

Ps Adam: for.

Yeah.

I mean, the, the education system
is to produce mindless workers.

It's geared that way.

Yeah.

I would love an education system that was
producing entrepreneurs, free thinkers.

Arun: Yeah, no, I love that.

And I just want to say, it's really
funny just hearing about all the issues

you said, none of them was around like
gender, that stuff, like really, it's

just like a really confusing topic.

These are important things that
we should really be caring about.

It doesn't matter what side you're on.

These are like topics that we
should all be worried about.

I think this is a great conversation.

I just want to say for all
the listeners out there, um,

it's been a fun conversation.

We tried to get our opinions.

And I don't say that as an apology,
but this is an invitation to also

have that conversation with us.

Yes.

If you want to reach out
to us on heightnetwork.

org, our email, please
reach out to us personally.

If you want to continue this
conversation, but we need more of this.

And so Pastor Michelle, if you ever want
to come back, please, we can do a part two

of this podcast, but it's been fantastic.

We should do

Ps Adam: a part two because
we've got so many more things.

We've got a long election process,
but we should definitely do it.

We

Arun: got to, I try my
best to come in hot with

Ps Adam: these things.

You know what I mean?

Oh, after the debate.

Debate.

That would be a debate recap.

That would be fun.

You're locked in, by
the way, a debate live

Ps Michelle: stream.

Let a live, live stream.

That

Arun: would be, oh my gosh,

Ps Michelle: I'm,

Arun: I love that.

That would be fun.

Yeah.

We're gonna wrap it up here.

Thanks for listening, guys,
and uh, see you next week.

Cheer.

Love you.