Hype Pod - The Hype Network Podcast

Welcome to the Hype Pod.

This is episode 54.

Let's go and counting what, but a very
special episode because my usual cohost.

Yes, pastor Adam is
now a first time guest.

I'm a guest.

The hi podcast.

We have returning guest,
pastor Kira as well.

Good morning.

And this is a afternoon,
a special podcast, midday.

Yes.

This is a special podcast and
probably the second one Kira

will listen to since she's on it.

Wait, I be You listen to every,
you haven't missed a minute, right?

Of course I listen to all of them.

Exactly.

Hey, but your mom listens.

Oh, so we know that much.

Yeah, that's true.

Love right there.

That is my mom's love.

Can't be a match.

Oh, there's nothing like it's like it,
but this is a special episode because

the Hype Network, people that know you
would just love to hear your story.

They've been asking about it and this
is a perfect venue to do it, and we've

been trying to figure out when to do it.

Yeah, I think going into Amen
Conferences is a good time to do.

I think it's a good time.

I think it's a good time to do it.

And so what we wanted to chat
about was people know you as a

global leaders of our church.

They planted now 11 active campuses.

We've got 11 active.

I like that.

I like that.

I like that word.

Active.

Active campuses.

And we've deployed.

Deployed would plan the four.

There's another four cooking.

Right.

And then they're not active.

They're not active.

Inactive on top of that.

110 years.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Or that 96 plus the 4 85
to go after this year.

Five to go 110 years.

Incredible.

Yes.

But there was a whole story before
this that we wanted to get into about

your upbringing, how you guys met.

Let's wind it back.

And before we look
forward, let's look back.

Let's look back.

And so let's start with your upbringing.

So Pastor Kira, let's start with you.

Okay.

I've heard that you didn't
have a Christian upbringing.

No.

Growing up.

So tell us the story of how
you came into your faith.

Okay, so, um, grew up in a
place called a tiny beach town

called Newcastle Australia.

Um, and it was, it's an awesome
place if you've ever visited, um,

great things come out of small
obscure places, I will say that.

Um, but when I grew up there, my, my mom
fell pregnant with me when she was 17, um,

and married my dad pretty quickly, so they
divorced when I was about five years old.

Um, and then I lived between
their homes all the time.

So like, my mom moved to Sydney,
so I would go down to Sydney

every second weekend and then
come back and be with my dad.

And so there was a lot of transition and
a lot of movement in my childhood and.

It was in the midst of all of
that transition 10 years later.

Um, I was 15 years old and I was down
visiting my mom in Sydney and one of

her friends worked for Sydney Water and
she invited my mom to church and so.

My mom and my sister and I had planned
to go to church on the Sunday, but

on the Friday night, they had the
youth ministry happening there.

And um, so my mom dropped me
off to the youth ministry.

It happened to be, um, C3 church,
um, Christian City, Oxford Falls,

pastor Phil and Chris Pringle.

Mm-hmm.

They pastor that church and yeah, so
she dropped me off to youth ministry.

I went in, I didn't know anybody,
and, um, the preacher was preaching

and at the end she, um, she said,
Hey, um, is there anyone who

wants to respond to this message?

So I responded and she looked at me and
she said, you sit alone on your bed,

crying out to God, asking him if he's real
and he wants you to know that he's real.

So it was this like word of knowledge
moment that just located me,

and I was like, God, you see me?

Mm-hmm.

You can have my whole life forever.

And so from that moment,
I became a Christian.

Wow.

Um, and haven't looked back since.

I moved to Newcastle, back to Newcastle.

Live with my dad.

'cause living in Sydney, there was
just like a lot of transition with

my mom's jobs and different things.

And so I, I wanted stability in
my later years of high school.

Mm.

So I, my dad had remarried and
I have a beautiful stepmom.

And so I moved in with them and
finished my high school years at school.

But when I went back to Newcastle, that's
when I walked into, uh, this guy's church.

Hello, um, Newcastle game over
city church, which was meeting

actually in a workers club.

Yep.

It was in a, like a nightclub.

Yeah.

So my dad, who is not saved, would walk,
like, drop me off to the nightclub.

And he, he's like, are you
sure there's a church here?

I've heard some stories that I'm
going to church in a nightclub.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

And so I'd get dropped off
for Night Church there, and

that's when Adam, I met Adam.

Uh, that's a funny story.

When we met each other, the first time
I walked into church, first time she

walked into church, I just remember
she was wearing snake skin pants.

Oh wow.

And uh, they were the, I didn't
even know you could get pants.

That type was, I was Did you wear
those because you thought it was

a nightclub or you, you planning
on, on doing a dance afterwards?

I was little church and
dancing and being saved.

Okay.

Right.

It's a process.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

She was brand new to Jesus.

Yeah.

But before we get into the
romance bit, I actually want to

touch on your upbringing as well.

'cause you actually had
the opposite almost.

You grew up.

With a generation of pastors ahead of you.

I grew up with a generation of pastors.

I, I was born in church pretty much,
you know, I, I grew up, uh, going

to church on a Wednesday night,
my pajamas, revival meetings, uh,

Sunday, three or four services.

And so there was, uh, less nights
at home than there were at church.

Mm-hmm.

Every, every day of the week church.

And so, and then I went to
the church school as well.

So my whole world was church.

I don't even remember the day I got saved.

I think I got saved on every alt
article between five and 15 years old.

Mm-hmm.

It was just what you did.

You know, there was another, uh,
compelling, uh, revival message.

Yeah.

Better get saved today.

It was purity movement.

Better get saved.

Uh, and I was like six years old.

Well, what did I have to get pure for?

You know what I mean?

Um, but, uh, I think I watched
Ninja Turtles one time.

I thought, be bad about that.

Uh, and uh, I remember going
through purity movements in youth

ministry, you know, where you would.

Just some preacher would come
through and all of a sudden he

would tell you, Nirvana is terrible,
and we'd have to burn those CDs.

And then all of a sudden you look back
and go, man, I really wish I had that cd.

You know what I mean?

But that was my upbringing in church.

I was always in, uh, church,
uh, Christian schools.

And so that was kind of my world.

My granddad, he planted 13 churches.

Uh, my uncle's a pastor,
my dad's a pastor.

And so, uh, for me, ministry church,
that was my life and my upbringing.

Mm-hmm.

Was there never any other choice
for you or any other path?

Was it always just gonna be ministry?

Um, yeah.

No, there was, there was
other choices and paths.

Um, I was, uh, originally before I
went into ministry, actually Kira

technically did Bible college before me.

'cause I went into, when I came outta
school, I went and did electrical trade.

So I, I was pursuing
trades, building a business.

And then I was doing, we were
running the youth ministry

and all these kinds of things.

So there was, uh.

Kind of a bunch of different business,
uh, routes that I had originally gone on.

Um, but then we kind of really felt like
that, that call and that pull to ministry.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So you guys met at this church together.

Did you guys meet when you finally got
into ministry together or you just met.

Just as attendees of the church?

Well, I mean, depends who you ask.

Uh, Kira.

Okay.

You wanna, sorry, let's
go version by, yeah.

So yeah.

So the night that I walked into his
church, um, my, my aunt had invited

me because, um, she was part of
this, oh, this is a great story

called Heaven's, gates and Hill's.

Flames, yes.

Mm-hmm.

I don't know.

It was pretty famous here in America as
well, but we were doing like a version

of that in this church when I walked in.

Yeah.

And so I'm sitting at the back of the
church and watching the service and

Adam is playing the drunk teenager.

And I, I tried out for Jesus.

Right.

Um, but they said, you know
what, you got to look, you,

you look like a drunk teenager.

And you know, I always
thought, oh, he's kind of cute.

Well, the kind of cute guy walked up
and started having a conversation with

me at the end of church at o Miss.

Come on that.

You gotta take a shot.

There it is.

But the funny thing is
his mom intercepted.

Ugh.

And she's quite protective.

Mom of four boys.

Yeah.

You know her four beautiful boys that
are just of the Lord and me and my snake.

Skin pants was trouble.

You know Satan was a snake.

Yes.

So, hang on, mom's doing
the connection here.

I was pretty much Jezebel in her mind.

And um, and she was like, Hey, um, if
you've been calling our house, 'cause

there was a girl calling their house.

Oh.

There was a couple of stalkers back then.

You know stalkers.

Right?

Right.

And she's like, if you've been
calling the house, you need to.

Stop.

My boys are not allowed to date
until they're 18 years old.

And I was like, I don't know who your
son is and I have not been calling

your house, so please like, let me off.

Right.

You know, and I remember thinking,
I'm never gonna date any of her boys.

Well, got her.

Yes.

So that was the first interaction
we had with each other.

That was the first interaction.

One of many first interactions
because one, the, probably the next

interaction was we were going, uh,
down to a youth conference together.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh, we had, uh, armed and Dangerous.

Armed and Dangerous
was a youth conference.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, it's kind of like one of
the first times, uh, I had seen

Kira outside of a, a church.

Mm-hmm.

Like, or setting of the church service.

And so we were meeting at McDonald's,
uh, that was like the rally point

to get picked up in the vehicles.

And uh, I remember going down to, it
was at the Maro Conference Center, so

it was probably like an hour or so away.

Yep.

From where we were and.

I got there and, uh, I was like, man,
how do I talk to, how do I talk to Kira?

She was in a different car.

I'm like, how do I talk to Kira?

Yeah.

And, um, I think you had
forgotten your sleeping bag.

I did.

Yeah.

She, I don't know why.

And she got there and out, just
making sure I had all my Yeah.

Outfits.

And she get, she got there and she's
like, oh, I've forgotten my sleeping bag.

Mm-hmm.

And I said, no worries, you can
use mine, but I'll be in it.

And then I'm thinking, then
I'm thinking, and she gave me

this look like, who are you?

What's wrong with you?

And I'm think, I'm an idiot.

Oh, I'm an idiot.

You brother actually punched
you in the back of the head.

He did.

He punched you?

No, he was him.

He's like, you're an idiot.

Yeah.

Um, just trying to be funny.

You know, you're trying to use any angle
you can, but, uh, it made an impression.

Yeah, I did.

Yeah.

Did you, did you never
forget him after that?

I.

No, I never forgot him after that.

Yeah.

He, he's, he tells the story of, you
know, he like fought so hard to get

me, but I, I saw him that first day
at McDonald's and I was like, he is,

I, why do I, why do I like this guy?

Yeah.

Why there's something different about him.

Can you describe that?

What was it?

Yeah, tell me.

Yeah, tell what was about it.

I don't know.

It's just like one of those divine meets.

It's like, you know, when you
see someone and you're like,

oh, I wanna be their friend.

Like, I, I feel like, I don't
know, there's something about them.

There's this draw mm-hmm.

This magnetism, and it wasn't,
oh, it's not even like we

had a harder conversation.

I just felt like, oh, I like this guy.

I'm intrigued.

I wanna get to know him more.

Right.

So what about you, PA
what was that for you?

I think that that was a
pretty good explanation.

Like I was pretty focused on
skateboarding, surfing, you

know, all the important things
in life and, uh, that's true.

And then.

You know, we're going down to this
conference set center and this

conference that we're on, and, and then
seeing her, uh, in the like, kind of

like on the curb at the McDonald's,
uh, I dunno why I was sitting in

the, the gutter sitting on the curb.

I, I like, yeah.

It, you know, Rick and I rock up
and like I know all the girls, like

I grew up in the church, right?

So I know 'em all, and then all
of a sudden there's this new girl

and I'm like, Hey, yo, what's up?

And uh, just hearing her speak,
it was literally the same thing.

I'm like, I gotta get to know this
girl some more, but don't be obvious.

Right.

You know, don't be obvious.

Don't let everybody know.

Uh, you really wanna get to know, so
you're just acting casual and trying

to do a kick flip in front of her,
you know, or something like that.

You know, just trying
to get her attention.

Yeah.

Right.

But it literally took three years because
she went into Barber College straight

after that, and Barber College had a rule.

Mm-hmm.

You can't date for the first 12 months.

And because I grew up in the church, the
Dean of the Barber college, literally

on the first day, sets out the rules.

Okay.

And the rules were you can't
date for the first year in Barber

College, especially a SM boy.

Literally.

That's, that's literally
the, why was this a rule?

Oh no.

'cause he was a punk.

That's why.

And, and he knew that we like
to get to know college girls

and so the barber college girls.

And so, uh, but my buddy Paul Lamb,
who's on the board and we've had on the

high pod, he was in college with Kira.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And, uh, I'd gone to sch gone to school,
and so he leaned over just, he just leaned

over and he was like, but Adam's okay.

Yeah.

Oh, what a we man instead.

Yeah.

Pretty much ignore that dean.

He dunno what you're talking about.

Yeah, yeah.

Uh, but it was awesome.

It was really awesome that she
was at Barber College and I was,

uh, running electrical business.

So she had already
committed a year to God.

So there's this.

It was kind of like circumstantial.

Yeah.

We're pretty young.

Uh, you were like 19, 18.

18, 18 years old.

And so it was kind of like from 16 to 18.

Mm-hmm.

We were in school, we're in youth
ministry, we're doing ministry

missions, all these kinds of things.

And we were definitely interested in
each other, but it was very clear to me.

We're just friends.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yep.

Kira would just, we are just friends.

Mm-hmm.

She would remind me from time to
time, you're a good friend, right?

Yeah.

But was this because of the rule you had
at bible college or, no, I had nothing

to do with the rule and everything to
do with, um, probably my upbringing.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, just getting a front row
seat to a lot of casual relationships

and, and I think I was probably
defining for myself mm-hmm.

A different route.

And, and I had come into the
church and I had seen marriages.

Now, like your family was such a
contrast for me of marriages that

stayed together until death do us part.

Mm-hmm.

And so it was kind of like me just
being in a new house, learning new

frameworks and, and ways to engage.

Um, and it was, it was
me safeguarding myself.

'cause I was like, I'm not ready yet
and I wanna make sure that whoever

is pursuing me, you really want me.

'cause you know, oh, she made me work.

I had like a front row seat to it.

Not working a lot.

Yeah.

And she, and she had this, like,
Kira had this allure, like there

was literally, she was, um, smoking
hot and she was on fire for Jesus.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And they say love is blind.

She literally was just
in a league of her own.

And, and uh, she plays it down.

But there were, she had this,
'cause she had this rule,

this 12 month rule can't date.

There were guys who would send
her anonymous flowers, like

guys from the barber college.

Different guys were trying to ask her out.

Secure is this, or like she
was already hot commodity, but

because she was unattainable,
she was even hotter commodity.

Right, right, right.

And uh, I, I remember one time
like, 'cause I'd hang out with her

and she'd be like, man, this, I had
these other random person send me

anonymous who sends anonymous flowers.

I'm like, oh my gosh.

They florist forgot again.

They're from me.

You know, ke I'll, I'll fix it.

But yeah, they're from me,
you know, just friend flowers,

you know, just friend flowers.

How do you do it?

Because this kids talk
about it all the time.

Yeah.

Breaking outta the friend zone.

This could be advice
for anybody out there.

Yeah.

Well, I didn't break
out of the friend zone.

I broke out of the best friend zone.

That's a lot harder.

That's deeper.

That's deeper.

Uh, and essentially the,
the, uh, I wore her down.

No, not true.

We, it was a, uh, it was a situation
where, uh, I had already sensed,

okay, uh, we are getting closer,
but this is how it happened.

She had, uh, a mission
trip lined up to China.

Mm-hmm.

My, you gotta remember, my uncle
and my aunt are the pastors

of the church at this time.

And so, uh, Kira had, uh, planned to
go on this missions trip with my aunt.

They were going into
China smuggling bibles.

It was like a two week covert art working
with the underground church in China.

And, uh, I'm like, oh, this is
really inconvenient timing because,

um, I would like to, you know,
make my move and ask her on a date.

Mm-hmm.

I had already kind of,
uh, taken her on a date.

Uh, I borrowed my dad's car.

We went out, remember?

Yes.

Uh, and on that date, I kind
of let her know my feelings.

Mm-hmm.

But she shut me down hard.

Really hard, like pretty much
said, I'm not interested.

What she meant, and I found this
out later, is I'm not interested

until after my mission trip.

That's kind of like her
12 month commitment ends.

Right?

Right.

Um, oh, you didn't make that public.

This was just internal view.

You didn't let him know
It was kind of public.

I kind of had to make it public.

Oh, okay.

Because there was a lot of invitations
and I was like, guys, I'm not

dating commodity hot commodity.

And so literally like, I
thought this is my moment.

I'm gonna do it.

I kind of put my heart out there.

Yeah.

Like a little fledgling, right.

Chicken.

Uh, and she squashed it.

Okay.

Literally demolished it.

And so I was pretty dejected.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but she was still acting friendly
and, and it was so super confusing.

Yeah.

And, uh, I thought, okay,
this is what I'm gonna do.

Uh, I'm going to, I'm gonna, uh, 'cause
I didn't articulate myself very well.

That's how I was telling myself.

She didn't understand what I was asking,
you know, so I thought, I'm gonna do this.

I'm gonna put it in a letter.

This is back pre, there's no text message.

Yeah.

I think this was before email.

No, we didn't have my mobile phone.

This is so long ago.

Um, and so I put it in a letter.

And I was just gonna hand
it to her, have her read it.

Mm-hmm.

And then, you know,
start crying and Right.

Fall on her knees and thank me
or whatever I had in my mind.

Whatever.

Yeah, exactly.

But I went up to her and we, uh, I don't
know why McDonald's was always Macas Mac.

That's, it's the spot.

It's the spot.

It's the spot.

It's cheap.

Yeah.

Right hand.

And we were poor.

Uh, and so went up to
Macker's and I ga at Macker's.

I gave it to her.

And literally as she takes it, uh,
a bunch of her friends run up and I

just freak out because I'm picturing
now she's gonna read this letter.

I want that.

And I put right down the bottom, I
love, like, I'm, I'm going all out.

Yes.

You know, burn the bridges.

This is it.

Or we're not friends,
you know what I mean?

And, uh, as I see her friends come up,
I'm like, oh, read it on your flight.

Oh, mm-hmm.

Which was dumb.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because she takes off.

She's in China for two weeks.

I'm like.

You can't, she can't respond hate me.

Does she?

Is she crying, missing me?

I don't know.

You know what I mean?

Uh, and she was kind of mean too because
she, we were best friends, right.

And so she had decided
here's what we'll do.

'cause we talk every day.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

And uh, this is best friend zone.

Yeah.

And so she's like, Hey,
I bought two journals.

This is what we're gonna do.

Every day you just write an
entry, what you did that day.

I'll write an entry so when
we get back, we can exchange

And we didn't miss anything.

Yeah.

I'm like, oh, that's
actually kind of smart.

Yeah.

Oh.

But she was mean, she, she
spread her perfume in it.

Oh, you, I know.

So for two weeks I'm like,
smelling this thing going, oh,

you know, does she hate me?

I'm ripping pages out.

Like it's a pedal of a flower.

And, um, long story short, yeah, she, uh,
she got back and, uh, yeah, she loved me.

Oh.

And did, yeah.

Did you cry on the fight?

Read the letter?

I did.

When I read the letter, I had to
wait for his auntie to go to sleep.

She was my pastor.

Right.

And so when she finally went to
sleep, I unwrapped the letter and

honestly it was like so scary to exit
the friend zone and enter into like.

Beginning to be lovers.

Mm-hmm.

Because it was, it was, I was terrified
I was gonna lose my best friend.

Oh.

And But you wanna marry your best friend.

Right, right.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I read it.

I couldn't believe it.

I was like, wow, he loves me.

Okay.

And then had to spend two weeks
trying to focus on the Lord.

Yeah.

And like he interjected anyway.

Right.

He got, he got me sidetracked anyways.

Right.

This was the plan of Lord and
then called him the first minute I

landed and oh, we dated, a couple
days later we started dating.

Yep.

And that was it.

And so you got to this point, ultimate
romantic move, write a letter.

Mm-hmm.

Send you off on a flight,
come back, you start dating.

So from there.

You make the ultimate
choice to get married?

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Any interesting stories
to get to that point?

Or was it smooth sailing from there?

Oh, I mean, it was, uh, what was it?

It was, he, he, it was kind of,
it was pretty smooth 'cause we

were kind of really aligned.

Mm-hmm.

Like on where we were headed.

But he would celebrate me every month.

He would buy me a flower, like a rose
for each month that we dated two.

So it was like one month.

It was one rose, two month was two roses.

Yeah.

Tell him what, yeah, tell him.

Okay.

By the time it got to our one
year anniversary, he turned, he,

he's like, Hey, you're gonna need
a special outfit for this date.

Mm-hmm.

And I was like, oh, okay.

Okay.

So I let him shop for me.

I should never have done that.

Me.

Did he buy the sneak skin pants?

I'm like, where do you get
those sneak skin pants again?

Worse.

I look like the Joker.

I, it was a purple suit that was
iridescent from the nineties.

It was hard.

It's like, I don't know where you
bought it from, but you thought it was

appropriate to propose to me in it.

Oh, you picked up proposal outfit?

Yes.

He walked the outfit.

I picked, I picked her proposal outfit.

I look back now and it's so cringe,
but at the time, because I didn't

wanna give away where we're going.

Right, right.

And she's like, what do I wear?

I'm like, he don't worry.

I'm just saying dress warm or dress nice.

I said.

I'll fix that.

And I went to the store
and I bought her a suit.

I bought her a suit purple.

It was a shelter.

It was, it was, it's literally a purple,
like a, like a maroon and a move.

It was from Q Australia.

There's a fancy store.

It cost me a pretty penny.

Yeah.

It's, it's a nice store.

And you didn't have any sisters
to ask, so you were just

going in I, my sisters to ask.

You were just, this was just you.

I just, I just went hardcore.

I'm like, I'm gonna buy that.

Yep.

So he just, the lady even
asked, what size is she?

I said This, you got, I put my hands out.

You did get the right size, but nailed it.

It was a little tight.

Nailed it on purpose.

Yeah.

Stop it.

Okay.

And so, so anyways, he drove
me to the local airport.

We got on a private plane.

Yeah.

On his electrician wage.

Wow.

Well, well I like how you
call it a private plane.

It was like a little, it was a small
plane with, uh, 18 other people, but,

uh, yeah, private is a nice word for it.

Oh yeah.

No, it was like a little cheap plane.

We had to go down, fly down to
Sydney and uh, and then I wanna do

by plane, by air, by land, by sea.

And so we did plane down to Sydney.

We got a taxi that, the land part.

Yeah.

Uh, to circular key, the rocks.

And then we got a ferry under
the harbor bridge on sunset.

On Sunset.

Yeah.

But the night came into circular Key.

Beautiful.

Yeah.

You gotta Beautiful understand though.

The night before we were serving in youth
ministry right up like the night before

I proposed and uh, we, you know, things
get a little rowdy in youth ministry and

uh, at the end of the night we're playing
like soccer and I ran past a guy and he's

elbow somehow connected with my face.

Oh no.

And so my teeth went through my lip Yep.

But I wasn't gonna get stitches
'cause I'm proposing the next day.

Mm-hmm.

So the next day my lip is the,
like the size of a grapefruit Yeah.

As I'm proposing to Oh dad like this,
you know, I'm literally, and when I, so

that's true to ask her, I'd print it out.

Mm-hmm.

Um, actually this is
how old school we are.

We faxed it to the restaurant, the
proposal and the way to brought it out.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh, but the best
part about this mm-hmm.

He had like ordered his words
and what he wanted to write,

which probably sounded more like.

Adult.

Mm-hmm.

His dad had intercepted the facts,
being his ultimate being my dad.

And put like stick figure, you
know, clip art, remember clip art

clip, you know the little clip art
with the proposal on the flowers.

Dad just started to clip art it up.

That's very much a bad thing to do.

Such a dad thing.

I'm like, what the, I see it
and I'm like, I didn't do that.

I did not do that.

Anyway.

She said yes.

She said yes.

And then I had to get mom and
dad to pick us up from Sydney.

'cause I ran outta money.

I was an apprentice electrician.

Thank, drove his time.

That is unbelievable story.

You went all out for all your
women, all out, your daughter,

all out, you got married.

Mm-hmm.

And an interesting way we talk about
on podcast before about when you're

starting a business, you need to make
sure you pick the right co-founder.

You got diverse.

You married your co-founder.

That's right.

There you go.

So, because you like a spouse, right?

You married.

So then did you know the plan was
always to plant churches going

in because from his side he knew.

Mm-hmm.

A tension that could
happen from your side.

Were you ready for something like that?

I think I always saw a church in him.

Mm-hmm.

I just never saw it in me.

Mm-hmm.

So it took a minute for
me to get on that journey.

But you know what?

The moment that I responded to an
altar call on Sunday, um, about

church planting, we, five months later
we were here planning five church.

Oh, wow.

So, like, God worked quick, but I
think God was kind because he knew

that it was gonna take both of us.

And I had to get on board with that.

But for like, looking at his
family, it was like, oh yeah.

I don't know why I wasn't smarter.

Yeah.

And knew that that would be in my future.

Right.

Right.

Had no idea.

But you kind of just look at yourself
and you go, well, why would, how

would God use someone like me?

Yeah.

You know?

And, and he had to do
a work in me for that.

But I heard there was opposition.

It wasn't clear, smooth sailing
to even get to that point.

You had an idea.

Yeah.

Where did the idea come from first
off, that you wanted to play in the

Bay Area and what was the opposition?

Yeah, so the idea came from
really, we were hustling hard.

We were building a youth
ministry and loving it.

Like it was growing like crazy.

It was like a revival.

Yeah.

We had, uh, gang members coming.

We had to have, we had to install
security and metal detectors.

Wow.

Uh, and so people were, you know,
dropping knives and all kinds of

stuff on the stage at altar calls.

It was like wild, wild youth ministry.

We were busting kids in from projects
and all kinds of stuff, and it

was just like a wild move of God.

But in the middle of that, God
was like, pressing on my heart,

Hey, there's, there's more.

Uh, and at the time I was
like, what's more than this?

Right?

This, we're a living ministry.

Mm.

But I was also on the
preaching team for the church.

And um, I had, uh, outreach
responsibilities, all these things.

And I remember pitching ideas
to my pastor at the time that

got completely rejected ideas.

Like, Hey, let's do billboard
outreach, let's do all these things.

And it just kept going.

We don't do that.

We don't do that.

Mm-hmm.

And so the frustration of that,
I think really kind of irritated

me to like, Hey, I think I'm
gonna have to do this ourselves.

Mm-hmm.

So we were looking in Sydney.

Uh, at different places
we could plant our church.

We had a team of about 40, uh, young
people that were fired up and ready

to go with us and start this church.

Was this from the youth ministry?

It's from our youth ministry.

Mm-hmm.

Pretty much like most of our leadership
team and everybody were ready to go.

Mm-hmm.

And they were, they were ready
to pack up, moved down to Sydney.

We were about an hour and a half away.

Uh, but really, uh, God spoke
to us about, uh, Silicon Valley.

I was reading about, uh, from
Paul in Romans 15, where he talks

about how long to go to Rome.

I long to go to Spain, and I just really
began to, uh, research from commentaries.

What, why, why did Paul, and it
what emerged was the fact that

Rome was the center of the world.

Mm-hmm.

All roads led to Rome, all
led roads led from Rome.

So whatever happened in Rome, in
the culture affected the world.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And I began to think, well,
what's the roam of today?

It's not Rome anymore.

Mm-hmm.

And that's where my, my kind
of thoughts around the Silicon

Valley emerged at the same time.

My uncle, who's a pastor
of the church mm-hmm.

Was in San Francisco.

He put on Twitter in beautiful
San Francisco, would love to

see, uh, a church planted here.

Mm-hmm.

I connected that.

I realized this is pretty
much the Silicon Valley.

Mm-hmm.

This could be the Holy Spirit.

Mm-hmm.

You know, if, if things are
happening in parallel or God is

emerging, something recurring,
you kind of gotta pay attention.

Right.

Whether it's in business or if it's
the person that God's got you to marry.

God kind of has a way of getting
your attention on those things.

And I remember saying to Kira one
day, Hey, like, what if we would've

planted a church in America?

Mm-hmm.

And uh, she was like, wow,
that's like kind of crazy.

But at the same time, she's like.

I have to be honest, I've had
this weird sense that maybe

one day we'd live in America.

Wow.

Mm.

I'm like, you never shared that with me.

Right.

But that's cool.

So I said, Hey, let's be spiritual.

Let's fast and pray for seven days.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

And so she's like, that's a good idea.

So I get out, go for my morning run.

I'm literally halfway up the street and,
and just the thought kept coming, delayed.

Obedience is disobedience.

And I'm thinking, why am I thinking that?

And I felt the Holy Spirit say,
what are you hoping to hear?

I changed my mind and I was like, oh, I
feel like I'm being disobedient, even by

spiritually saying, let's fast and pray.

So I literally turn around, I
ran straight back home and I

said, Hey babe, cook breakfast.

And she's like, what?

I thought we were fasting.

I'm like, no, no.

We're just gonna give God our first.

Yes.

Straight away.

And that was literally.

The decision to move to the United States.

Yeah.

I love that leadership.

Even within the context of
the decision, like mm-hmm.

He came to you with this proposition.

Mm-hmm.

He came to you with this idea
of, you know, we're gonna fast

and pray, and then mm-hmm.

Quickly a decision was made.

Yep.

What was your reaction to that?

Like, you were probably needed
a moment as well, right?

Well, I was praying.

Yeah.

Like, I was actually legitimately
praying as well, and I had walked out of

the room and said to him, Hey, I, I, I
just know that we are meant to do this.

Like, I don't need to be convinced.

Mm-hmm.

I just feel like there's
a yes in my spirit.

Mm-hmm.

And so, yeah, we, it was mutual.

We looked at each other
and went, let's see.

Yep.

Let's see.

So you were really aligned?

Yeah.

Oh, we're super aligned.

You were super aligned.

Mm-hmm.

I just point the kids,
you guys already had kids?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Had three kids.

All, they're all five and eight.

Eight.

And the twins were five.

Yep.

Fantastic.

And so for them.

Easy.

We gotta follow the parents.

Well, they thought they were
coming to America, thought it was

to start a church in Disneyland.

Yeah.

They, so it was very, you might
might have convinced them that

America was Disneyland, right?

Yeah.

Uh, they were young, they
were, they were emotional.

Uh, you know, because they all,
their whole world and their friends

and family and were trying to kind
of get into their head, Hey, we

are, we're not going on a vacation.

We're actually going to live.

Yeah.

And, uh, they, it's hilarious.

I mean, the twins were five.

Yeah.

And uh, this week they graduated
and they're texting their friend

from kindergarten who graduated at
the beginning of the year as well.

And they're still connected and
friends with people when they

were five and eight years old.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, but to, to come on
the journey was Yeah.

That was a big step as a family.

Yeah.

It was, everything was unknown.

Uh, and we had no money.

We literally, no one would.

Partner with us significantly that we had.

I mean, my pastor, we had, we had a
beautiful couple who did have this.

Correct?

Yeah.

So we had my pastor who, uh, he,
he said, look, we can't support you

ly, but we can give you an offering.

Mm-hmm.

At the last Sunday you preach,
uh, we had a couple in the

church who were from America.

Mm-hmm.

And they were like, uh, they were, I
can't remember whether they were from

Santa Barbara or somewhere like that.

Yep.

And, uh, they were like, man,
can we, can we support you?

Mm-hmm.

They ended up paying for
our girls' schooling.

We took 'em to put 'em a private
school and we landed here for a year.

Yep.

Uh, and we had, and then
I went preaching mm-hmm.

For like a couple of months and
just raised some, some support.

So we were able to get together $60,000.

Wow.

Funny story.

I'm, I land in America.

And we're trying to set up home.

And, uh, someone connects me to
a church planning network here.

And there's a room that
I get, uh, in Sunnyvale.

I go and sit in this room and there's like
four or five church planners in this room

and a experienced couple of pastors who
are just pulling church planners together.

We're sitting in a, in a circle and
they're going around and they're, they

have to say the name of the church
and how much they've raised in their,

in their, uh, for their church plant.

Okay.

Fund.

Literally the first guy goes, he says the
church name and says, A million dollars.

I burst into laughter 'cause I
thought he was having a joke.

Right.

And I'm the only one laughing.

I look around and, okay, sorry.

And then next guy, same
like 800,000, next guy, 1.2

million.

Yeah.

All the way around the circle.

It gets to me, I'm like, I'm not
exactly sure what we're calling our

church and I've got $60,000 this time.

Everyone laughs like I'm making the joke.

So I just laugh with them and then
when they stop laughing, I'm like.

No, I, seriously, I've got $60,000.

Mm-hmm.

So they were all like, so concerned.

Yeah.

Like, so terrified.

Like to one point after one of the
church, uh, pastors that was there, this

was, uh, the pastor of Westgate Church.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, Steve Clifford.

Yeah.

He's a lovely man, lovely guy.

And he said, Adam, are you
seriously, like, what are you

doing for, for health insurance?

I'm like, what's that?

Like, we're like, Aussie, we're at
Universal Healthcare in Australia.

I didn't know you had
to pay for healthcare.

Mm-hmm.

And so I'm like, oh man, I, I
don't really have health insurance.

What?

Like, 'cause in a street, if
you have health insurance,

that's kind of bougie, you know?

Right.

Maybe for some cosmetics or something
like that, you know what I mean?

Uh, but he, he was like, no, no.

Like, it's like, you know, a
couple thousand bucks a month.

Mm-hmm.

I'm like, oh yeah, we
don't budget for that.

So he put us on their church
plan for the first year.

Oh, wow.

So there were like many miracles like
that, that happened along the way

that were also confirmation from God.

We didn't get the millions
of dollars funded.

But you know what's crazy outta that
whole circle, there's probably only

two church plants that survived.

Wow.

Yeah.

And, uh, we had, we had 60,000 bucks.

What, what is it?

I mean, what is a
mindset to go to America?

I mean, you were figuring
it out in America.

It's not like you were going
to this established Yep.

You know, small church and
you're trying to build there.

Nope.

It was, we're gonna go,
just figure this out.

I think like there's.

Some sort of like skill here that
you can impart on people that you,

you know, I think you've gotta be
relentless and a little bit stupid.

I think you gotta be a
little bit ignorant mm-hmm.

Of the obstacles.

Mm-hmm.

Like if you knew the obstacles
ahead, you would just say no.

Right.

And sometimes I think you can
know too much about the journey.

That becomes daunting.

Yeah.

I think you've gotta get from
next point to next point, we

literally, were living day by day.

Uh, today we're gonna get a,
a driver's license today we're

gonna open a bank account today
we're gonna get a cell phone.

It was literally, today we're
gonna find out how to drive on

the right hand side of the road.

Yes.

Like, there, there was so many little
things that we had to learn along

the way, uh, that if we had have
known all the things we had to do,

we probably wouldn't have began.

Yeah.

It's funny, one of the engineers on
my team today actually just said.

We don't build things because it's easy.

We build it because we
thought it was easy.

Right.

It really is.

Exactly.

It's true.

It really is just what you make of
the situation before you get into it.

And it's all a learning curve.

Yeah.

Like I remember meeting with venues
and my language had to change mm-hmm.

Because I, I would tell people
we're here to plant a church.

Yeah.

And they were so confused.

They're like, well, why are
you looking at our building?

I'm like, because I wanna
plant a church here.

And they're like, plant a church.

'cause their idea of a church
is a steeple and mm-hmm.

Bricks and mortars.

And so they, there's, they're confused.

And so I had to start saying, Hey,
we wanna hold a worship experience

or we want to, and just change my
language outta my culture to, to

connect with what we need to do.

Yeah.

So take me through the, the 60,000.

How did you get your first
building or your first space?

Oh my gosh.

So we started in the living room.

You wanna tell 'em that?

Yeah, we started in our living room.

In your living room.

Wow.

You were there in our living room.

Mm-hmm.

Um, we, we just held like
prayer meetings in our home.

Mm-hmm.

We're like For your neighbors or who?

Yeah.

It was like, it was our neighbors.

They're not in our church anymore,
but I mean, they brought people

who are still in our church today.

Wow.

So it's really fascinating how
God will use people mm-hmm.

To connect you, um, through.

Natural net networks, but we had prayer
meetings in our home and we just built,

just kept building momentum around that.

And then, um, at our first service we had
in our home, we'd gone to Ikea and bought

a hundred shares and fit 66 people, like
jammed them in from front to back mm-hmm.

Of our, our living room.

There were kids, the kids came and
we just put them outside 'cause

we had no room for them inside.

It was winter.

We had a fire pit out there.

One kid, as he's doing the altar
call down the front and getting

people saved a lick of flame.

Like nearly wipes out a kid as they're
running past it, like, I don't know.

It was crazy.

I think they were jumping over it.

Yeah.

But this just came out of us
starting with a prayer meeting.

Mm-hmm.

In our living room.

We, we got connected to this
house, we had to pay cash.

Out of our $60,000, we had to
pay cash for the first month.

Last month ran deposit and our,
our next door neighbor's, like

a detached unit next to it.

And the la the member, I think her name
was Marella, she came the prayer meeting.

She was lovely.

Yeah.

And we just started to
build people like that.

Yeah.

To the point where we had 60
people come to this prayer meeting.

Yep.

That was the first service in our house.

We realized we can't do this anymore.

Mm-hmm hmm.

So we rented a space, a, a
conference room at the Crown Plaza.

At the Crown Plaza.

Mm-hmm.

And we would just hold, uh, preview
services in the ballroom and then we'd

do team services in the conference room.

Mm-hmm.

But to go from that, so
we landed in January.

Mm-hmm.

We needed to launch the church in August,
otherwise we're gonna run outta money.

Mm-hmm.

Like, we needed people to start giving,
we needed people to sew into this church.

'cause we had spent everything.

Right.

And I want, just 'cause I, I feel like
maybe it wasn't mentioned, but you

guys sold everything in Australia.

It was a ticket.

Everything.

Like this was, it was 11 suitcases.

So we sold everything outta the 60,000.

We probably put in 40 something and
I was able to raise the rest mm-hmm.

Um, through preaching and
different things like that.

And so this was support money, our
money, everything just full, full in.

Um, and so to launch the church, we
didn't wanna launch in the Crown Plaza.

We wanna launch in the
Jewish Community Center.

Mm-hmm.

But for us to be able to get
a consecutive set of Sundays,

they wanted a $10,000 deposit.

Wow.

We had $10,000 left in our account,
which was our emergency fund home.

Yeah.

If this thing didn't work,
there's no welfare for an

Australian immigrant mm-hmm.

Uh, in America.

I will get you.

Uh, and so we literally had a
$10,000 safety net and I remember.

The decision, are we gonna do this?

Mm-hmm.

Is this our last like, and I
remember being angry with God.

Mm.

I was so mad.

I'm like, yeah, take us through that.

I was like, come on.

Like, God, we have given everything.

We've moved countries.

Yeah.

We've got a little bit of traction
now with some, some people.

But man, we, we've got nothing.

Like, I can't even pay rent this month.

Uh, we, I remember the first time.

It was probably like about a month
before we launched the team that

had joined us and started tithing.

And I remember we had 800
bucks come in that month.

Mm-hmm.

That's the month.

Mm-hmm.

For the tithe.

And I remember saying, Hey
Kira, we can buy some groceries.

And, and it was so like thin.

Mm-hmm.

And here we are trying to launch the
church, uh, on a shoestring budget.

We had actually all the launch dates
we had printed on one flyer and we

would just get a Sharpie and mark off
the dates that had already expired.

Um, and so we were doing things
so scrappy, uh, just really

old school missionary style.

And I was so mad because I'm
like, God, we've given everything.

Yeah.

And it's like, you won our last $10,000.

Mm-hmm.

And, and I'm like, it is, isn't it?

You wanna fine?

Yeah, fine.

I was like that kind of attitude with God.

Fine.

Here we go.

What?

I wrote the check gave the $10,000 check.

To the thing.

And then that Sunday we went
from about 60 people on the team.

We had about just over 200
people at the launch service.

Wow.

Yep.

Um, and then there has not been
a Sunday in the life of Vive

Church, even through COVID.

Mm-hmm.

Where we haven't had someone saved.

Wow.

Yeah.

Every single Sunday since then,
someone has come to Christ.

Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, in one of our locations
or in some setting.

Mm-hmm.

Take us through that moment of
going from, you said 60 people.

Yep.

At the time to 200.

How did you guys get the kind of
word out there that you know, you

should come check out five Church.

Was there a lot of
competition at the time?

I grew up in the Bay Area.

I went to an Indian church, so Okay.

I didn't really know.

So not very much competition.

I didn't really know
of any other churches.

Uh, we were trying everything.

Huh?

Like we got in trouble a lot.

Uh, we did a lot of illegal things.

I remember we put, we got these
door hangers did not illegal.

It was illegal.

We got threatened.

We, we had um, uh, we
got these door hangers.

Mm-hmm.

And um, I realized I printed like 5,000
door hangers and going from door to door.

That takes a long time.

Yeah.

I remember going Stanford one time.

I'm like, there's like a
hundred thousand bikes.

There's bikes everywhere.

Like, how about we do this?

I just hang 'em on bikes.

Yeah.

The students in my mind who go, oh, look
at this, A church jolly good old chap.

I might ride my bike down
to the church this Sunday.

No, no, no.

What happened?

We put.

I think it was like a thousand
or 2000 flyers on bikes.

Every bike you could find, right?

Yeah.

Uh, overnight we're at there at
night, like in stealth, right?

Yeah.

And what had happened, all the
students would come, they'd grab

'em and just throw 'em on the floor.

So I get a phone call from Stanford
University threatening to sue us, right?

Because the whole campus is covered
in our door and they're like

literally putting a heavy on me.

I got their legal department on me
or whatever, and I'm like, I'm sorry.

I just love Jesus.

Yeah.

Yeah.

From Australia, mate, sorry.

But we did get one amazing
student from Stanford, uh, come.

He brought all his friends.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So God used those.

So it looked like that on his bike.

Yeah, probably.

So at this point, was by
church a worship experience?

Like have you changed the branding
of what the church you were kind of.

Producing out there.

This is a worship experience.

We, uh, we, no, we, we publicly, we
were saying we were launching a church.

Yeah.

Um, for sure.

But it was just a language
to talk to, you know, venues.

Mm-hmm.

Or, or whatever.

They just didn't understand.

They didn't make the connection.

They, they only saw church as
a established building with

pews and, you know, a priest.

Mm-hmm.

They didn't understand a
modern worship experience.

Right, right, right.

Uh, so we just had to model
our language for that.

Yeah.

Uh, we would do all kinds of things.

We'd do Facebook ads, we would do
whatever we could to get the word out.

We'd invite people.

I remember, uh, I would work
from Starbucks every day,

and I, I set a discipline.

I'm not leaving until I
invite 10 people to church.

Mm-hmm.

Some days it happened, like in
the first couple of hours I just.

Go and meet people.

Some days it was like, man,
I'm 3:00 PM I've gotta get

my other four people, right?

And uh, but I had
miracles in those seasons.

Like, I remember standing like so
awkward behind people trying to find

a way to strike up a conversation
and uh, Hey, what are you getting?

You know, can I buy you coffee?

You know, that kind of thing.

And I remember this one guy,
I bought him coffee and.

He sat down with me and he just, it
just went from zero to a hundred.

He starts pouring his life
out, crying there in Starbucks.

I'm half like embarrassed, but
also like, this is awesome, right?

Uh, we end up leading him
to Christ in Starbucks.

Wow.

He comes to church that Sunday we get him
baptized and it just injected this wave

of momentum into our little church team
to see, man, we're, we're doing this.

Mm-hmm.

We're not just creating another option.

We're actually trying to reach the
unsafe, we're trying to reach people

and get people, uh, one Christ.

And so those little moves actually
became catalytic to empowering

the team to do that at Google
or wherever they were working.

And that actually created the
momentum where from 60 people team

to 200 a launch just came from
people being, uh, evangelistic.

Right?

Yeah.

So I want you to take us through
the next step of this because

then came the first vision, which
was five churches in five years.

When you first came here, you
probably were just like, it'd be

great to just plant one church.

So how did you go from that to
five churches in the five years?

Well, we, we, we did do that
in the first couple of years.

It was like one church a year.

Yeah.

So, but I signed up for one, like
you said, like, I mean, and I

barely signed up for one because
I saw the church in, not in me.

Right.

Yeah.

And so, um, it's so funny
how God will do that.

Like he, he will take you on a journey
and he unfolds it as time unfolds, uh, so

that it doesn't scare the hell out of you.

Mm.

But it does.

Still do that.

And so, you know, we arrived here
and we just had such momentum

and beautiful growth, like why be
selfish and keep that to ourselves?

Mm-hmm.

We had so many people coming from San
Jose, so we were like, okay, people don't

love to travel up here to the peninsula.

Why don't we establish a, a
really good, solid team down here?

So I, I watched as we, you know, as
I, my husband who I think, you know,

I used to think he was crazy and now
I just realize he's a man of faith.

Oh, thank God.

I mean, thank God we got there.

You know, like there is, it's just like,
is this another one of his crazy ideas?

Right, right.

But every time I would see, you know,
God uses vision, he uses big ideas, and

then he breathes on it and he fills it.

Mm-hmm.

And it's like, okay, this is not so crazy.

Yeah.

This might actually be God.

Mm-hmm.

In, in, and the partnership that
we get to walk things out with him.

So.

I watched as we filled that San
Jose campus, and then we did San

Francisco and then we did Oakland.

Mm-hmm.

So when he launched five
campuses in one year, ah man.

Like that was like, okay, well
this is just getting tricky again.

Is God big enough to be able to do this?

He's done it in the past.

He's proven himself faithful.

He's proven himself faithful as a leader.

Mm-hmm.

Who doesn't just, you know, a lot of
entrepreneurs or leaders, they love to

just talk big, but they don't walk big.

Mm-hmm.

Whereas what I love about
my husband is he walks big.

Like he works harder than
anyone would ever know.

Mm-hmm.

Like I get to see him from the
moment he gets up in the morning

to when he goes to bed at night.

Right.

And so that work ethic and that
partnership with God just saw us see the

fruit of what we are walking in today.

Yeah.

And it's not just us, it's like.

Allowing other people how selfish of us
to just have a vision that's big enough

for us, that's comfortable for us.

Mm.

Yeah.

Like God wants us to create a vision
that is so big, other people can

give their lives to it as well.

Mm.

And as I watch us now, like, I
mean, I, I probably jumping too

far ahead, but as I watch our
church in different nations mm-hmm.

And how thankful people are that
they're allowed to be involved in the

church and used by God in our churches.

I'm like, I'm so thankful I gave
God my Yes and didn't limit him.

Mm-hmm.

With, you know, my limitations
or my comfortability.

Right.

But that, that probably didn't come
with a lot of opposition though.

Right.

Because making a big decision like that
when you just planted your first church,

there must have been a lot of voices.

That gave you advice.

So many.

Yeah.

Talk, take us through the, that kind
of adversity, just making the decision.

You have to convince yourself, first
off, is this something we wanna do?

And then you have to deal
with the voices around you.

Yeah.

It's funny because, you know, when you
hear, hear it from that perspective,

vision sounds very attractive
and like, you know, faith filled.

But a lot of the vision
is just solving problems.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, there were problems that I was facing
on, man, we've got this growing church.

We're maxing out services.

We only fit 300 people in the building.

And I'm trying to think, well the
next biggest venue, 'cause I'd looked

at all of them, was 5,000 people.

Mm-hmm.

And the, and the financial gap
to go from a 300 seat venue to

a 5,000, that's just ginormous.

Hey, what?

Here's an idea.

What if we plan a campus, you
know, down the road we had, we

went two, 300 seat venues, much
cheaper and we can just broadcast.

And so a lot of vision comes
out of solving problems.

In being obedient to Christ.

Mm-hmm.

God had put a mandate on us
to keep expanding to growing.

Mm-hmm.

Not to get comfortable not to do that.

Plus the kind of people that God
were drawing and bringing to the

church demanded a bigger vision.

Yeah.

Because God was bringing
high level people.

Mm-hmm.

I'm talking intelligent people.

People were gonna Google, as I said,
and I'm like, I'm kind of like this

electrician from Australia who's
just being obedient to God and

I'm sitting in conversation with
people at these large tech companies

doing like pioneering things.

And I'm sitting there going,
man, like, I better, I better

stretch my faith a little bit.

Mm-hmm.

If I get comfortable, I'm gonna cap us.

And I felt nauseous at the thought
of being the lid on people's lives.

Mm-hmm.

And, and so the.

Opposite is also true that when you
lift the lid, that comes with criticism.

Mm-hmm.

It comes with criticism about you wanna
build an empire, you're trying to make,

you know, a, a name for yourself, and
you've just gotta take those criticisms

with maybe it could be many things.

Mm-hmm.

It could be people's fear
that's manifest in criticism.

Mm-hmm.

It could be, uh, jealousy or
it could be a lot of things.

And at the end of the day, you've
gotta understand the enemy's trying

to hijack people to intimidate you.

Mm-hmm.

But you gotta keep stay staying
remaining obedient to God.

Yeah.

And, and that's really
what we're trying to do.

We're trying to prob, uh, solve a
problem that Jesus gave us, right?

Mm-hmm.

Go into all the world and make
disciples of every nation.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So we're trying to solve that
problem the best way we know how.

Yeah.

If there's a better way, I'll do it.

I wanna do it the best way possible, but
I'm convinced in my heart that the church

is the best vehicle for making disciples.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I feel like you've, um.

Adapted to the world around you.

When you kind of moved here, you
weren't into the tech world, you kind

of came here and you put yourself in
a position, both of you guys, to be

around these people that had these like
business forward kind of thinking of

how to scale and grow and accept that
and put, bring that into the church.

Yes.

Was that difficult for you guys
to kind of adapt to how people

grew here in the Silicon Valley?

At that time it was.

Build fast and break things, right?

Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Which is kind of a scary thing.

Fail fast.

Yeah.

Fail fast.

Which is kind of a scary
thing to do in church.

You don't really wanna do that.

Yep.

But how did you guys take those
principles and adapt to the church?

I think I got really more, more than
being inspired by the tech companies.

I think I got inspired by the venture.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, venture capital and just that,
that belief in investment in people.

Uh, I was just so inspired by hearing
about these companies that were investing

stupid amounts of capital in startup
ideas that I thought were ridiculous.

Mm-hmm.

Like ideas that, uh, when we first
arrived that launched things like Uber

and, uh, Airbnb and stuff like that.

And I'm on the, I'm on the fence
of like, that will never work.

Mm-hmm.

Literally, like that's such a stupid idea.

Not only did it get, they get
millions of dollars in funding.

Oh no, no.

They, they become an
everyday part of our life.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

And so that was a quick immersion into
Silicon Valley to think optimistic.

I come from Australia,
we think pessimistic.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

We we're, we've got tall poppy syndrome.

It's the opposite.

So I was conditioned to a way of thinking
of being critical and thinking lower.

And I had to make a cognitive shift.

If we're gonna build a church here,
we have to build it with a kingdom

perspective of optimism, belief.

Mm-hmm.

Faith and, and I think I
really got inspired by the

atmosphere of the Silicon Valley.

Mm-hmm.

That really was God's plan in
actually teaching us how to

reframe our kingdom perspective.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

That's really nice.

I actually want to talk about the roles
that you guys individually played as

you went through this journey, because I
actually forgot to ask this, being that

you were from a church planning family.

Yep.

What did you see in Pastor Kira
as she got grew into this role of

planting churches that she brought
to the table to kind of help.

You know, build these church.

And then Patrick, Kira, I'll
let you speak about that.

Yeah, I mean, it, it was so
easy 'cause I gotta see Kira

a minister in youth ministry.

Right?

So we're doing youth ministry together and
uh, I actually coined the phrase velvet

hammer all the way back in youth ministry.

It wasn't just when we started the
church, she would preach, uh, in our youth

ministry and it was like hot surgery.

Mm-hmm.

She could preach in a way that.

Uh, I could never get anybody to cry.

Mm-hmm.

But every time she preached everyone in
the house was crying, you know, everyone

was on the altar and dealing with deep
sin, and she had this way of just like,

kind of unpacking the word like a surgeon
and just getting to the core of issues

that a lot of time I had no experience in.

Mm-hmm.

But because of her background and her
experience in a family setting, she

could really pinpoint, uh, uh, like a
strategic message that would go right in.

So I, I coined the velvet hammer.

'cause Would you like she's more
the empathetic one kind of, so Yeah.

So, and her pastoral ability mm-hmm.

Blew me away.

Yeah.

Just her, how she would minister and
think of people and um, obviously that,

that's easily gets abused by people.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but it was fascinating to me
just to see that heart for people.

Right.

Um, that I was like, oh, we need that.

Mm-hmm.

Because I didn't have that,
if I'm honest with you.

Go going into being a pastor and not,
and mean be admitting to not having that.

Yeah.

How did you get through this?

Was it just relying on Pastor Kira or
was it something you learned as well?

Oh, a hundred percent.

Uh, really leaning into Kira and just
taking her wisdom, uh, knowing that, uh,

if she brought something up that we needed
to do with, and, and I can function in

the role, it's just not my natural GoTo.

Right, right, right.

Like, I can be pastoral, uh, when Kira
tells me to, but at the end of the day,

I think it really works sometimes against
being a leader, because as a leader,

we have to lead us into battle, right?

Mm-hmm.

A pastor is gonna be like, do
we really wanna go and get hurt?

Mm-hmm.

Do like, we're have to care for everybody.

We have to leaders, like, no,
no, we're gonna go and fight.

Mm-hmm.

And there will be some casualties.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, but we still gotta take ground.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And so, flipping hats between
being a pastor, a leader, it's

very, uh, kind of like it's, that
was a tension that you navigated.

Exactly.

I, well.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

But having Kira as a pastor
really helped me navigate it well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Speak on that a little bit more.

'cause I think your
perspective would be nice.

Yeah.

I think it was a attention
because, you know, it it, we didn't

need him to be overly pastoral.

Mm-hmm.

We needed him to lead us.

Yeah.

We needed him to forge a way forward.

Mm-hmm.

We needed him to trailblaze
and be the pioneer.

But, you know, in my pastoral, you
know, oh, we've gotta care for people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that can be an anchor sometimes.

Um, and so we had to
work out in our giftings.

Mm-hmm.

And in the.

Like unique things we brought, how do we
bring this together so that it's, it's

creating a holistic atmosphere Yeah.

For our people where like, okay, cool.

If we're gonna forge a way forward,
then ah, there's a hospital bay

here and I'm gonna set it up and I'm
gonna repair people along the way.

'cause we don't wanna lose everybody.

Um, so, you know, but it was a tension.

It wasn't easy.

Yeah.

And we had to, yeah.

We had to grow.

We had to be cha challenge each other
to be better than we've been before.

Mm.

Like best's power of partnership.

Yeah.

And to skill yourself up and tool yourself
with things that are not naturally yours.

Right.

Like Yeah.

I'm not naturally gonna
blaze a trail mm-hmm.

But I can.

Yeah.

And.

Life has proven I can mm-hmm.

Get in that slipstream with him
and like blazer trail forward,

but that's not my normal.

Right.

Right.

But if you don't have both, I remember
a significant moment where I had a

thousand people as a measure marker, man.

When we get to a thousand people,
this is gonna be like, incredible.

And I remember we had this, uh, this
Sunday we had a thousand people.

And, um, the team are jazzed.

Everyone's pumped.

Holy crap.

We did it.

And that evening, you know, we would
do every Sunday night after church,

we would get the team, the court
team together, and we'd debrief the

day and we'd learn straight away.

And that night get into it.

Okay, so next week guys, and Kira
was like, Hey honey, can we just,

can we celebrate for a second?

And I'm like, oh yeah, that's right.

Right.

Yeah.

We should, we should celebrate.

But.

Because my mind is next.

Next.

Yeah.

Next.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

We hit a thousand, let's go 1500.

And yet what we needed is if
we never rewarded the team,

we're gonna burn them out.

Yeah.

And so I'm like, oh yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.

That's so smart to actually, let's
have a moment of celebrating.

Yeah.

Because that's what God does.

Yeah.

We, we get to celebrate the wins.

Right.

You know?

And so the, the two, I think
those two aspects have been

a, a powerful partnership.

I love that.

There's a, um, the Netflix F1
series called Drive to Survive.

Mm-hmm.

Just hearing your entire kind of story of
how you guys got here, it kind of feels

like from your perspective, there was
a side of you guys that was like, if we

ever stop driving, we might not survive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's why it was
always the next thing.

The next thing.

Yep.

But there is that aspect that
you have to bring in where it.

Well, with each milestone,
you know, we completed a lab.

Yep.

Mm-hmm.

We completed another lab and we have,
there is a goal that we're going towards.

Yes.

And you have to celebrate Yes.

When you're doing that and acknowledge it.

That's a great analogy, because
after every race in the whole

season, they have a podium.

Mm-hmm.

They have a celebration.

And yet sometimes it's the same
guys celebrating every time,

but they lift that trophy.

Like it's the only time.

Right.

And I think that the F1 without
those mini celebrations mm-hmm.

Let alone the full championship Yeah.

Celebration, uh, really would
miss, uh, the fact that you

got it after every little race.

You've gotta, you gotta celebrate.

Right.

I will say the other thing I
love about that series mm-hmm.

Is, um.

I mean, what were we watching
Center the other day?

Center.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But the way the cars have
transformed over the years.

Yeah.

Like you, the way we transplant
plant, like the way we transformed,

the way we plant churches has
transformed over the years.

Yeah.

Like we, uh, we are doing it
better than we've done it before.

Yes.

Like example, not the same example.

Think would be really good.

Oh my gosh.

Like, wait example, learning lesson,
example, because you went from.

Five churches to now you
want a hundred churches.

Yeah.

There's something you must have
learned that said, okay, we can keep

doing this versus we should stop.

Yeah.

Yep.

I think you learn something after
this will be at 14 at the end of

this year, and, uh, after having, I
mean, imagine you had 14 kids, you'd

learn a thing or two about parenting.

Right?

Right.

Yeah.

Uh, we're learning a thing or two about
church planning and how to actually not

just get the church to viability, but
how do we get a church to profitability?

Uh, because a church viable really
is only sustaining themselves, but

they're not, uh, expanding the kingdom.

Right.

And the goal of a church
should be to keep expanding.

Mm-hmm.

And so really winding some things back
with better setups rather than just,

you know, launch and hope for the best.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Uh, you know, it's, so, it's
not really about the pace.

Mm-hmm.

It's about how do we actually
set people up better?

Yeah.

Um, you know, it's the whole idea of,
uh, you've got a tree, uh, you know,

and you've got eight hours to cut it
down, spend seven sharpening the ax.

Right.

You know, and spend one hour cutting,
otherwise you're gonna have a

blunt ax and spend eight cutting.

Uh, you'll achieve the same thing.

But why don't you just sharpen
the ax for seven and then you'll

get through it in one hour?

You, and that makes sense.

So from the people aspect, it
sounds like that was the important

part of this next journey.

It's not just, you know, you plant
a church, but you need to get

people on mission that can help.

Drive that.

So, I mean, I assume this is
kind of your area of expertise.

So how did you change how you dealt
with people kind of moving forward?

Well, it's funny how you, I'll, I'll
use being a parent as an example

because that's a form of leadership.

Mm-hmm.

But when you become a parent, um,
you think that God has given you

these children for you to grow.

Mm-hmm.

But actually he's given them to
you, uh, for, for them to grow you.

And so a lot of people think, oh,
you just want me to serve in the

church because you wanna use me?

No, no.

I want you to serve in the church
because God wants to grow you and this

is an opportunity for your expansion.

And when people get on that journey
and they begin to grow and they begin

to be used by God and they see their
giftings and their calling come alive

and they're not just doing the nine to
five and they're like living for God.

And like you get to see
what that does in people.

So if you don't have a conviction
about what it is that you're

building, the church is people.

Yeah.

We're not just.

Expanding empires or building built,
those will come along the way, but

they service the mission of expanding
the gospel and building people.

Mm-hmm.

And so, um, I love building people.

I love seeing someone get lit up
about the way that God can use them.

I think a lot of people underestimate
the, the stuff that's in them, that

God's placed on the inside of them.

Right.

And they don't have a context to
be able to work it out and use it.

Mm-hmm.

So I love integrating Yeah.

People's skill sets and giftings and, um,
bringing those together in the mission

and the plan of God and seeing it.

Uh, the, the mission magnified mm-hmm.

And multiplied.

Yeah.

Because we've put many hands to work
on it, you know, not just one person.

I think it's the many for me.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, it's the, it's what
we can do together.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Like when you get a whole bunch
of people together, you go faster,

you run harder, you last longer.

There, there are things that you
can do together that you can't do

on, on your own or just in a few.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And so I get thrilled in leadership
about what it looks like if we can get

everyone focused on the same thing.

Mm-hmm.

The power of getting not just tens,
twenties, or hundreds, but thousands

of people to achieve things.

There'll be, there'll be things we
can achieve in our day and in our

lifetime that we would never, ever
hope to dream of getting on our own.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

But it just requires, uh, it
requires leadership, right.

To say, let's do this, let's get together.

Yeah.

You guys brought up your children.

I wanna speak on this because I
feel like when people are excelling

in one area, they're kind of.

Or at a deficit in other areas.

Yeah.

They let something go.

Right?

Yep.

Like maybe you're a really great
leader, but your household is

kind of going Right, right.

In a weird way.

And so I wanna speak on that because
I've seen your daughters on stage

the way, I mean, it's probably
one of the best things to see.

They'll be in the back.

My favorite thing speaking.

Yep.

And they'll be fully attentive
to what you guys are saying.

Yes.

They're look to you guys
as their role models.

Yeah.

Which is really cool to see from
like the pew just watching you guys.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

So what is it that allowed you guys to
excel, you know, seemingly so, or what

were the challenges that allowed you
to do this in all areas of your life?

Yeah.

Well we, with specifically with
our kids, we made a commitment

that our kids aren't gonna be the
sacrifice on the altar of ministry.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, that our family is our first ministry.

Right.

I grew up old school, Pentecostal,
remember I've got like generations

and, and family was secondary.

Mm-hmm.

Which is the truth.

Half these kids have been neglected.

Yeah.

I've had to see friends and it's
because, you know, church first and

you are second, which is unhealthy.

Every child should know
that they're first.

And so our kids knew firsthand,
like they've known the whole time.

Hey, we'll, we'll walk 'cause
you guys are the most important.

Mm-hmm.

And so they, they feel that to their core.

And at the same time, we had to
reframe things in the early days.

I remember they were like, you
know, so young and we'd starting

up church, so everything sucks.

Like everything was terrible, right?

So we'd get in the car off
the church and Kiir and I'd be

start debriefing straight away.

Oh my gosh, did you see what
this person did, what they were

wearing when they took the stage?

And man, next week we're
gonna do this better.

So we'd be like, critical for
like a 20 minute drive, right?

And then we'd go, okay, hey
kids, how was kids' church?

And they were like, well, miss
Amanda should have done this.

And we're like, oh, it was so ugly.

They're like, critical, right?

And then we realize they're
just copying us, right?

Yeah.

So we're framing church for them.

And so we decided from that day we're
gonna celebrate everything God does.

And so we would get in the car, we'd
be like, how amazing was worship?

Did you see those lives
that came to Christ?

And then we'd turned the girls
and like, how was kids church?

And they'd be like, we had these four
new people and they're coming back, dad.

And it was just like, it was, we realized
that kids grow in the environment you set.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And so that's kind of
how they, we worked it.

Yeah.

And I think, um, your kids are always
watching and they're always listening

even when you think they're not.

Mm-hmm.

And um, the amount of times where I think
I see my girls and, and it still shocks

me that they love me so much and that
they, they're like, you're my hero mom.

I wanna be like you.

The only thing I can put
it down to is consistency.

Mm-hmm.

And like they, I, so now the
twins have graduated school, they

go to the gym every afternoon.

Mm-hmm.

They caught that from me 'cause they saw
mommy going to the gym every afternoon.

So there's stuff they take in.

So we would have our physical bibles
out so they would see us in the word.

They see what I'm like when I'm stressing
over putting a message together.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

For Sunday.

Mm-hmm.

And so they're the first ones to touch me.

When you see me walking it on stage.

They're like, mommy, you're
gonna be great today.

And then as soon as I get down, that
was, you did a great job, mommy.

'cause they know what we put in right.

During the week.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think when there's, when they
see our genuine love for the house and

God, and that we are Christians first and
foremost, and they get to witness all the

things behind the scenes that validates
everything that we do from the platform.

And I would say nothing's gonna
confuse your kids more than seeing a

different person on stage than at home.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Like they're gonna be able
to reconcile Well, who, who's

who, like angry dad at home.

Right.

Yeah.

And like misdemeanor god up there.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

That's gonna bring such a confusion
and disappointment to your kids.

Mm-hmm.

So.

You know, don't act.

Yeah.

Just don't act right.

Don't get on stage and start being this
big bishop, preacher, man of God guy.

And then at home be cussing like a sailor.

Right.

Decide to be consistent at home.

Mm-hmm.

Be firm, be loving, but be the
same person who is on stage

joking, having a great time.

Right.

But being authentic.

Mm-hmm.

And watch your kids respect that.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I love how you guys talk about how your
kids, you know, give you that support.

Who else do you guys rely on to kind
of get you through all the season?

'cause it can be kind of
lonely at the top, right?

When you're the ones managing
it, all the criticism, go see

you, the praise go see you.

But like.

It's just a tough journey.

Where's the praise I'd look?

There's praise The one senator a year.

Pastors appreciation.

That's it.

That church keeps forgetting that one.

We gotta fix this.

Uh, the, the, but yeah.

Who do you rely on?

Who, who helps you guys get through?

We got pastors as well.

Yeah.

Uh, so Pastor Yoga and Leanne
are, um, just beautiful pastors.

They've been our pastors for decades now.

25 years.

Yeah.

And, um, so when I got saved,
they were my youth pastor.

Oh, wow.

So they've been mentors, models, pastors,
um, and they have always had an open, uh,

line with us, conversation invested in us.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, that feels really good to
be able to have pastors and

Yes, pastors need pastors.

Right.

Uh, people that they can kind of mm-hmm.

Uh, talk to and kind of get
their thoughts straight.

Um, friends, we're big on friends.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

We, we don't feel, uh, I, I kind of.

Cringe when you say it
can be lonely at the top.

Yeah.

It doesn't have to be, right?

Yes, that's right.

We're not lonely.

Mm-hmm.

No, we, we've, we really like our church.

Yeah.

Like, we really like the
people we do life with.

Um, and it can be confusing for people.

Mm-hmm.

Um, 'cause people say, oh, do you
have to meet with other pastors?

Mm-hmm.

No.

Because then I hear their church problems.

Yeah.

Uh, I like my people.

I like the people we do life with.

Yes.

Um, and I believe that if
people are here, they like me.

Right?

Mm-hmm.

Um, and if they don't the,
for me, this is like cool.

It's open door.

Yeah.

You can, you can go.

Yeah.

Uh, 'cause I'm staying.

Mm-hmm.

And uh, for me it's like,
this is who God has called me.

Not just a pastor, but to do life with.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I look, honestly, it's pretty simple.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I do have my pastor, but I also
have a great relationship with God.

Mm-hmm.

And he's my wonderful counselor.

He's my best friend.

Right.

Like, when you actually
walk with God mm-hmm.

You know, he's the, he's a better
listener than my husband at times.

That's for sure.

It's, but you know, like our
real relationship, I'm a fixer.

David said he encouraged
himself in the Lord.

Mm-hmm.

Man, I encourage myself in the
Lord, like, sometimes you just

gotta encourage yourself when
nobody else is encouraging you.

Yeah.

So true.

And remind yourself who you are.

Yeah.

And I think that works in
any sphere that you're in.

If God's called you.

He'll equip you.

Brilliant.

He'll anoint you for it.

Brilliant.

He'll, you everything you need.

So good.

You just gotta stay the course sometimes
in those, everything has a season.

Yeah.

Too, you know, seasons where people
love you, seasons where people

hate you, seasons where people have
expectations on you that you didn't meet.

Mm-hmm.

There's all those seasons that
you navigate and it's just staying

true to the call of God and just
walking it out and working it out.

Mm-hmm.

And it doesn't have to be terrible.

Yeah.

There was a season, I'll be honest,
a season, uh, maybe a couple years

ago where, uh, I felt, um, like,
oh, like I, I'd love some, I'd love

some more men to speak into my life.

Like I'd love some more.

Fathers in the faith and I kept like
kind of being lazy and not doing

anything and just complaining to Kira.

'cause I kind of liked her sympathy.

But, uh, one day she just turned around
kind of frustrated with me and says,

Hey honey, why don't you be a father?

Oh, and I remember that moment.

It was a transition moment.

Mm-hmm.

It was kind of like, as I was turning 40
to go, man, I've been looking for friends,

but what I need to be as a father.

Yeah.

And it really shifted up
the way I approach people.

Mm-hmm.

Because a father doesn't
look for equal return.

A father just gives.

Right?

Yes.

Sometimes with friends you're looking
for like, oh, can you give, and

I give and it has to be a tit for
tat kind of a relationship, but a

father gives with no return in mind.

Mm-hmm.

Just to give.

And so mm-hmm.

That's kind of been the framework I've
been working with the last five years.

And, um, it feels like it suits
me more just to be able to be

like, I don't have expectations.

Mm-hmm.

I'm just going to give, I want people
to flourish, but I'm just a giver.

Mm-hmm.

That's a healthy leadership approach too.

Yeah.

Though, like a lot of people enter
into leadership thinking, oh, it's

gonna win me the praise of people.

But actually no.

If you're just there to outgive
and outgive, then you don't

get dis dysfunctional and
disfigured when it's not returned.

Right.

It's like, no, no, I, I'm doing
this to build God's house.

Mm-hmm.

And if nobody pats me on the
back and thanks me for it, and if

there's no celebration, it's fine.

'cause I got the great cloud
of witnesses clapping up there.

Right.

Cheering me on and I'll
get my reward in heaven.

So.

Right.

Oh, and the funny thing is, I think like
all through the years, Arun, like the, the

different crazy things in seasons or crazy
people that we had with us or whatever.

Right.

Uh, we've had some wild
stories at the time.

They were like kind of frustrating
or devastating or whatever.

Mm-hmm.

They're the things you laugh about now.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

And it's a good reminder when
you're going through a bit of a

hard season with some situations.

One day we'll laugh about this.

Yeah.

One day we'll look back and we
will laugh that that happened.

Yeah.

And um, I think that that's
what time teaches you.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

That's beautiful.

And speaking of time, I mean, we've
been chatting for a while, but I

wanna make sure I touch on this.

We've gotten to, you know, this moment, I
feel like let's just put you on a podium.

Congratulations for everything
you've done, but looking forward,

you have a long journey ahead, just
many races to get to this a hundred.

What would you say are the
success criteria that you guys

are looking for in the next.

Next year, each year to up to 10 years
that you guys are looking forward to?

Yeah.

I mean, you could talk about your,
we've, we've talked about it, uh,

marriages together, um, families
flourishing, generations leading.

Really what we framed in the future
letter that we could look at the

future letter and we could see the
church infiltrating different spheres

of industry, uh, uh, really a body of
believers around the globe that are moving

as one in different cities, cultures,
languages, societies, but ultimately

seeing the Kingdom of God advanced.

Mm-hmm.

And so we've got like this framework that
we're building towards, we don't know what

it'll fully look like until we get there.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but I just think it would be
cool if we can all, when we graduate

to heaven, literally have on our
belts, all these Kingdom Church

expansions that we are a part of doing.

Whether you're just someone who's
faithfully tithing in church, or

you're someone out there church
planting or whatever it looks like.

Everyone's part of the journey and
we're all building products, companies,

businesses, but none of those are a
substitute for building God's church.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I don't think you get to stand
before God in heaven and say, yeah,

but I, but I built great apps.

Mm-hmm.

And I think God's into
you building great apps.

Right.

I think God's into meme coins and crypto
coins and all these cool robotics.

Mm-hmm.

I think I really do think God's into that.

Mm-hmm.

Like that's cool.

Right.

You, I gave you creativity for a reason.

Yes.

Do the most.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

But none of it is a substitute
for also building his church.

I think it's gotta be his church plus.

Mm-hmm.

And whether it is as simple as
being faithfully honoring God with

finances that catapults people into
it, or it's using your actual tech

skills in the church or whatever.

I think there is, uh, success is
everyone participating in the vision.

I love that.

Mm-hmm.

Well, you, for me, I'm just looking for
the well done good and faithful servant.

Mm-hmm.

If that means that's so
righteous and religious.

I know.

I know it.

I know.

It's so righteous.

What a cliche.

But it's so hard to live.

Like I'm not looking
for the amens of people.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I'm looking for the amen of heaven.

Mm-hmm.

And that is.

So hard mm-hmm.

To actually live out.

So, you know, it means, um,
success for me means pushing harder

than I've ever pushed before.

It means, um, empowering more
people than we've ever empowered

before means planning more churches.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, we've got 85 on the horizon.

Sounds crazy, but let's
see what God can do.

Mm-hmm.

He's done crazier things and through the
early church, I mean, man, I'm just happy

to be a part of that page in history.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, that's here on earth and
now to make our mark and not

even for me, just for Jesus.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

So, uh, success for me looks like more
churches planted, more salvations, more

people that we get to see in heaven.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and live forever with in heaven, um,
on a populate heaven and empty health.

Mm-hmm.

That's, that's success for me.

I love it.

I think the, the biggest thing I'll
say about you guys, just knowing

you, is you've never limited
gotten everything that you guys do.

Is to say God is limitless.

Yeah.

Like you guys, it might sound
crazy to anybody here for sure.

Mm-hmm.

But like you have that relationship
with God to know that everything we're

doing is because God is limitless.

So.

Mm-hmm.

For the people out there that haven't
been to Vibe, that haven't been.

You hear Amen.

Conference is coming up.

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

Give them the pitch why they should come.

This is a great primer to understand the
lead pastors, but give them a primer of

why they should come to Amen Conference.

I think Amen is the, uh, epicenter
of our culture of Vive Church.

It's an opportunity for us to really
go hard after revival as an expression

of Vive from around the world.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, you've got every, a representation
of every continent culture that

we're in is gonna be in the room.

Mm-hmm.

And really specifically this year,
uh, we've really coined West Coast

Revival Conference because we
don't wanna just have a conference.

We want revival.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So the speakers I have come are there
specifically to stir up revival.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, one speaker I've talked about, Rex
Crane, who's coming, is an absolute gunman

of God who moves in the power of God.

I'm talking healing prophetic, and
I've literally given him the mandate.

Go for it.

Mm-hmm.

Go for it.

Like I, I know in our community there
are people dealing with all kinds of, uh.

Cancer diagnosis or you know,
different situations that are

in the realm of the impossible.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

What are we gonna do?

Just go day by day, living morally
or are we gonna get in an atmosphere

where the power of God shows up?

Yeah.

And whether it's for your
life or you witness it mm-hmm.

In somebody's life, that becomes
a faith building mechanism.

Mm-hmm.

Your muscle of faith that is
gonna translate into other areas

of your life are going to be
strengthened by being at Amen.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

When you witness a moment of miracle
where you witness someone's testimony,

'cause of that moment in the presence
of God and the other side of stepping

out of comfort and being somewhere
and saying, God, this is my buy-in.

Yeah.

This costs me money, it costs
me time, but I put you first.

I didn't stay comfortable.

I didn't sit in my sorrows.

I came out and I either received a
miracle or I witnessed a miracle.

Mm-hmm.

That same faith of possibility is
gonna apply to starting a business.

Mm-hmm.

Proposing, doing something
in life, taking a.

Uh, an opportunity in a business deal.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, that, that is a result of
being at a moment like this and

you don't get that many right.

In your life.

Mm-hmm.

Where the amount of energy and effort
goes into creating these moments

to open up a new window of heaven.

Uh, these are special moments mm-hmm.

That I would just say don't squander.

Yeah.

Don't squander these moments.

There, there is many other
nights to do meal prep.

There's many other nights to
do your boring, normal life.

Mm-hmm.

Take a, take a moment out,
be there, be around people.

And there is also something about
being should to shoulder with saints.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Like, I'm a Christian, so I'm gonna
be where Christians are, right?

Mm-hmm.

I'm around non-Christians a lot.

I'm at workplaces and I'm in different
spheres, but there are times where

I gather as the body of Christ.

Mm-hmm.

And the Bible talks about this
come together as the body.

Mm-hmm.

And so when these.

These opportunities are provided,
you should really have very little

reason that stops you from getting
together as the body of Christ.

Yeah.

That's amazing, Patrick.

Okay.

So, um, I was thinking about
that answer while he was talking.

Yeah.

But, um, I think about history.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, I think about the
one 20 in the upper room.

Mm-hmm.

Um, which was the beginning of the church.

Mm-hmm.

And I think how many people were invited
to that room but didn't get in that room.

Mm-hmm.

They missed out on that transference that
happened, that anointing that happened.

And, you know, I don't want anyone
to have any FOMO for not being in

the room when they're here, um, at
Amen Conference because there is

something about the anointing that.

Like shakes heaven and earth and like we
are gonna see a portal of heaven come in

and things are gonna happen in that room.

You have to be in the room for it though.

Yeah.

Or you won't believe it.

Yeah.

You'll be part of the people
out on the street going, I don't

understand what's going on.

You'll be confused.

But to be in the room and to be able to
have God speak to you, give you vision,

give you revelation, give you insight.

There are moments where you need to just
be in the room and this is one of them.

Yeah.

I love that.

It's kinda like your story.

I feel like nobody will
truly understand it.

Like you guys even just hearing it.

Yep.

On the pod there's a
little bit of it, right.

But Oh yeah.

You guys lived it.

You guys lived there and experienced it.

Yep.

Mm-hmm.

So now that they've built it, if
you're out there, you gotta come

experience, good account come what's
been built by this body of this church.

Absolutely.

I'm excited.

I'm excited for Amen.

Yes.

Thank you guys for sharing
your story and thank you.

These guys are an open book.

Yes.

If you ever meet them.

Yeah, they'll tell you this
story and more in person.

So what's and all and uh,
thanks for having me as a guest.

Thank you guys for coming.

Such a weird experience.

Great man, I glad.

You're great.

Excellent.

The best one.

All right, well if you guys like
this episode, please share it.

Yes.

All the links and the description below.

Um, it's been great episode.

Cheers guys.

Bless.