Hype Pod - The Hype Network Podcast

Arun: And, uh, welcome to the Hype Pod.

This is episode 46.

You got the usual dance with
us today, Arun, your host.

And we have a special
guest, Pastor Michelle here.

Let's go, Pastor Michelle!

Our first ever three time guest.

Am I really?

You're pretty much a staple.

Yeah, yeah, really.

Wow.

Call me Michael Jordan.

Call me Michael Jordan.

You might have to stay home.

No, no, no.

Ps Michelle: Come back,

Arun: come back.

So, what's been going on?

Last year was a big year for you.

Um, you took over campus
pastor for by San Jose.

Used to be our campus pastor
here at Mountain View.

We miss you.

But how are things going at by San Jose?

Ps Michelle: Oh my gosh,
it is lit, lit, lit.

It's so much fun.

Like I think one thing I love about
our VIVE community is it's, it's like

one house, multiple rooms where you
just get it going, meeting new people.

I'm loving this.

San Jose low key has some of the best.

Vance: You've been doing a tour.

Ps Michelle: Food culture.

Vance: Yeah.

You went to East San Jose.

Ps Michelle: Oh, somebody told me, they're

Vance: like, we took Pastor
Michelle to East San Jose.

I was like, really?

Why?

Ps Michelle: And then
I heard you loved it.

Holding out, gatekeeping, little
Saigon, San Jose, best pho in the area.

Best Mexican food, San Jose.

Like it's and it's such a community.

It's a community.

It's not a great experience.

No, it's a unique experience
It's family It's great.

So no, we're having a good time.

Yeah, this is Growing flourishing
we're getting you know things set

up for just an incredible year.

Yeah amazing If you're in the
San Jose area come and see us.

That's right.

Yeah,

Arun: you got to tell us one good food
spot for me San Jose No, you just go

Vance: to Grand Century, right?

If you go to Grand Century, that has
the smorgasbord of Vietnamese cuisine.

You gotta like, I you gotta like

Ps Michelle: Asian food, though.

Yeah, yeah,

Vance: I mean, you gotta like fish sauce.

Is there anybody that doesn't like that?

Arun: Asian food.

All Asian food just has flavor.

No, I've met some picky people that only
eat chicken nuggets and things like that.

They're not cultured.

As adults!

That would be so sad.

Listen, chicken nuggets are good, but
that's the only thing that's crazy.

Mac and cheese.

Yeah, it's not.

You gotta expand

Vance: your horizons.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Get out there.

If

Arun: you haven't tried Asian
food, if you're still eating

chicken nuggets, get out there.

It's good.

If you

Vance: don't eat Asian food, um, or
like it doesn't have to be even Asian.

If you're not open to expanding horizons
in terms of cuisine, I don't trust you.

Arun: Yeah, that's a fact.

I actually agree with that.

It's weird.

It means

Vance: you're very
limited in your thinking.

Yeah, that's very true.

And so, uh, break off the
limits and expand your horizons.

Arun: New book.

Um, and then you also are the executive
director at new creation home.

I got that right.

And hope hanger.

Yes.

Can you tell us a little
bit more about both of those

Ps Michelle: apps?

Oh, my favorite things to talk about.

So, um, yeah, vive church
is an incredible church.

Um, one thing we did during the
pandemic was we saw there was a, a need

that was emerging during that time.

We saw a lot of people locked in their
homes and with that came rising, um,

problems, social societal problems.

Loneliness, depression, all these things.

So we formed a separate 501c3
from our, um, from our church.

Um, at that time it
was called Help Online.

We've since rebranded to the Hope Hangar.

And what we're, we've revamped,
you know, since we've now come

out of our homes, but we, there's
definitely still needs out there.

So we focus on providing, um, basic needs
to low income families because we believe

that, you know, when When you look at
someone who's in that situation, a lot of

times they're trying to make decisions.

Um, hope can just seem so dim
and it's like, I don't know how

I'm going to see the future.

Right.

And it's so crazy how something
as little as being able to say,

Hey, we can, you know, we have
a bi weekly food distribution.

Don't have to worry about groceries.

Let's focus on getting you the education
on your kids, getting the education

they need on financial literacy.

Like let's take the basic needs out.

There's a community around you that
wants to come around and support.

And one thing I've even noticed just
with the LA fives is people's willingness

to jump in when there's a direct and.

clear line of ways that
this can be helpful.

And even even with our friends are going
through some situations right now, we've

seen people come around them to help.

It's like, once there's a direct
clear pathway of, if you do X,

Y, Z, this will help alleviate a
situation of humanity kicks into gear.

And so we just get the.

Pleasure of facilitating those
interactions over and over again.

We're going to expand
it this year globally.

So we'll have 11 hope
outposts all over the world.

Um, directing hope all the way
from Italy, all the way to the

U S it's going to be phenomenal.

And one of the branches of hope is hope
homes, which is where new creation home,

our first two homes that we've acquired.

We run a residential home
program that supports.

Homeless pregnant and parenting mothers.

So we have them in our home for up
to two years We get them, you know

from their points of desperation and
instilling them what they need to be

Independent coming out of our homes
and having a rock solid foundation not

just for them, but we see the biggest
transformation in the kids So that's my

favorite parts going to the homes you
meet the kids on day one and then by

month three, those kids are blossoming.

We had kids coming in who
weren't verbal, um, you know,

diagnosed to be on the spectrum.

And then by the time they're in a loving,
stable home environment, it's like,

Nope, that was actually just trauma.

That's why they weren't talking, you know,
and so being able to just provide that.

And again, coming at our homes
literally look like home.

So if you drove past, you wouldn't
know that behind those doors,

a residential program, because
they're nestled into the community.

And that's sort of the model we have
is how do we engage the community

to meet the needs of the community?

Rather than just, you know,
philanthropists, which there's

a need for that hashtag.

Go ahead and, you know, donate toes if you
want, but I do think there is something

about, instead of take getting a million
dollars from one person, getting 1 from

a million people, I feel like there's
something powerful about engaging people

into this, you know, situations they
see, they see homelessness, they see

food insecurity, they see all these.

things like, how are we actually
engaging, um, this generation

once coming up to say, no, I can
actually be a part of the solution.

This does not need to be going on.

And how do we, our goal is actually
to put ourselves out of business.

What we always say, like, we know we're
doing it successful when I get the call,

Hey, we've actually got to shut down
this hope outpost because this community

is already got what they need and the
resources to support the people here.

I

Vance: love that so much.

I mean.

Praise God for Vive Church, praise
God for Hope Hanger and Hope Homes.

And the reason why it still exists
and it's not out of business

because it's still serving a need.

Yeah.

Um, it's still, you know, uh,
you know, coming towards a gap

that was existing in society.

Right.

And praise God for just even the.

Institution of 501c3 and nonprofit because
these are the organizations that actually

do fill the gap Yeah, there's a gap
because for some reason government wasn't

able to meet those people where they're
at and also corporations with their wealth

was not able to meet them where they're
at because for some reason the incentives

and the objectives of those two entities
weren't able to meet some of these people

and that's where Church fills in the gap.

That's where, uh, 5, 1, 2, 3
organizations fill in the gap.

That's where generosity really shines
is generosity runs towards those gaps

that still remain in our society.

And I love what you said about,
uh, not just about that million

dollar donor, but how do we engage?

A million people to be able to
be the hands and feet of Jesus.

I think that's so beautiful.

Yeah.

Arun: Yeah.

And I think, like you said,
having a direct goal or a direct

person or people that you can
help kind of helps do that, right?

Like, yeah, you have a
cause that you can go for.

And so we're going to get into
the California fires, but a little

carryover from last week's episode,
um, we were talking about Greenland,

Panama, Canada, and the acquisition,
and we didn't really know, you know.

What is Trump really doing?

So I promise that we do a little
research, um, in the off week and then

make sure we came about it and then
you can give us your thoughts as well.

Maybe you're following it a
little bit closer than we are.

But there is a clear strategic
goal for what Trump is doing.

So he might be cooking here.

So we might have just,
you know, let him cook.

He might have been, we probably
threw it off, but you know, him

not doing much, but, um, The Gulf

Vance: of America, let him cook.

Arun: So there's two things.

First is, um, the Panama Canal, Greenland.

Um, so Greenland for one, There's
a potential trade route that

opens up because of ice caps
melting, which is really cool.

So he is strategically getting ahead
of this thing so that potentially

US could take it over and then
have access to that trade route.

Um, and then the second thing is
it's to hinder actually Russia

or China from getting access to
both of these things as well.

Yeah, um, and then the third theory
is that Um, it's just posturing.

So he is just trying to get ahead of
this and take an aggressive stance

for future negotiations and whatever.

But

Vance: it doesn't, isn't there an
opening also because they don't like

their relationship with Denmark?

Yeah, right now.

Yeah, right.

Denmark is kind of like
all extraction mode, right?

From the country and I think
that's kind of running its course.

Arun: Yeah, I think

Vance: that's part of it, right?

Arun: Yeah, that's
definitely a part of it.

There's like untapped
resources as well in there.

So Um, we'll see there's, that was like
almost an impossible thing to pull off.

Um, so we'll see if he even gets
close, but the idea of it, um,

actually there was more under the
surface than initially thought.

So I don't know if you're
following it as well.

Ps Michelle: Not that closely, but
I think it, it raises so many things

though with, you know, the American
first, um, mentality, mentality.

Like I.

Like, at least for me, I do really think
America stayed in America for a while.

We've been doing a lot worldwide.

Like, let's just come home for a season.

But yeah, there's probably
way more behind the scenes.

Yeah, yeah,

Arun: yeah.

Well, speaking of home, I mean,
California is going through it right now.

And so I just wanted to dig into the fire.

So I got some notes from
where we were from yesterday.

Um, the death toll is up to 24.

Um, this is, I think 25 today, 25 today.

Okay.

This is considered, I think the
most devastating fire in California,

um, Palisades and eaten have like,

Vance: definitely by dollar

Arun: by dollar amount.

Yeah.

Um, and I think structurally to like the
amount, obviously with the dollar amount.

Um, and I think it's a, for those
that don't know, if you don't live

in California, you're not following.

Um, I think it was a
convergence of a lot of events.

I mean, the risk factors were always
there, but it took the significant wins.

Um, plus whatever started
the fire, there's still

investigation, investigations
going on for what did start it.

Um, but

Ps Michelle: we know
arsonists were involved.

Arun: Is that confirmed?

Ps Michelle: Yeah, at least
for at least a couple of them.

There's like videotapes.

I mean whether they started it.

Right, right, right.

I don't know, but like
they're definitely not

Arun: Yeah, yeah, so there so yeah,
so there are there are videotapes of

people I think after it had started
already starting additional fires But I

think the original source at least from
what I looked up is still undetermined

But they're still investigating
it as to what actually started all

this Um, in terms of what people are
talking about, obviously our prayers

go out to all the families out there.

Um, but the actual government, um,
mishandling of this entire thing from

not just where it is now from, but
how it got to this point, um, Pastor

Michelle, if you had any thoughts
about dealt with local government,

lots of thoughts, let the heads

Ps Michelle: roll.

Like this is.

Um, an unfortunate, uh, situation,
but I'm hoping good comes out of it.

And it governmentally, I mean, definitely
we've seen humanitarian reliefs.

It's been actually really
cool to see the church.

Yeah.

United, um, like coming together,
LA Dream Center, shout out to them.

I've been following them for a while.

Can you talk about

Arun: what they're doing for people?

Oh

Ps Michelle: my gosh.

The LA Dream Center has been around for.

Like decades, like a while.

Um, and was known, like I was so
inspired because they basically

took one of the biggest structures
in the middle of LA and, and said,

we can use that to benefit life.

So generally their residential
program rehab, they go out,

find people under bridges.

They, they're like literally doing
this work already, which I think God

intentionally probably positioned them
for such a time as this in so many ways.

So when this broke out, they were able to
facilitate and just be a hub of respite.

Uh, of receiving so many resources.

So people that are affected by the
fires can come through drive through.

They've got blankets, water,
snacks, like all these things.

Um, but Hope Hanger donated and mobilized
our community here in the Bay Area.

We sent down along with Westgate and
other churches, um, a semi of resources

because the local, like Home Depot's
targets, everything were just depleted.

And so being able to just.

I think real time respond is not just
like, these things don't just pop up.

And this is a shout out to
not five, one, two, three.

It's like be consistent and
faithful to what you're building,

because you never know when there's
going to be a moment for you.

Like everyone's looking like, Oh wow,
this is, you know, so I'm like, no,

they've been doing this work faithfully
in the shadows, like, you know, and so

their ability to mobilize people have.

Structure systems, um, be effective
in clearing communications.

I've just been in awe of how
they've sort of really modeled what

relief can look like in crisis.

And, um, yeah, so that's been incredible.

And just seeing, so there's good already,
like you're saying, like, wow, to your

point about gaps, like, yeah, there's
literal gaps, like, you know, and people

can be like, well, LA is rich and all
the people there should be able to

support, but it's, well, if target has
nothing, like how are they going to,

you know, so, um, but I think going to
the government side, so I'm going to,

so yes, um, you know, the humanitarians.

side of it is there's a whole things
we can talk about, but this is a very

clear example of the complete chaos that
is California government from the state

level, county level and city level.

And if you don't understand how
those three different shots work,

everyone's like blaming everyone.

Right.

And I think at this point there
is a clear, uh, I love it.

Cause like civics one Oh one
of white local government is.

So important.

Yeah.

And people, a lot of times
they're arguing about, and I think

presidential elections are great.

Like definitely get involved.

But for the most part, I'm pretty sure
most people didn't know what the mayor's

name was in LA until this morning.

All of a sudden you're
like homegirl was in Ghana.

Why was she in Ghana?

My tax rate, you know, like she'd
been going to Ghana multiple times.

She's been doing international.

She was in Paris for the, why are you, you
know, she's been spending your money to

go international before this point, but
because it took something like this to.

Bring to the surface.

I think like, um, when it comes to the
fire department, a lot of times there's

the, there's the county fire department,
there's sometimes cities like every

county city is structured so differently.

Right.

And then when it came to the
funding, people are like, she

caught funding for our thing.

It's like, well, technically she did.

Didn't and it was a budget approval and
you probably had a vote and you let it

like It's so complicated because it wasn't
like a direct like i'm just gonna cut,

you know I can't remember what the number
was but tens of millions from the budget

and then that's but it's like no she
you know She would justify it as saying

no, we reduced down literally jobs that
weren't existence Non essential work,

which I think some of that included the
mechanics that would Fix the fire trucks.

So even though they had firefighters
to go out, they didn't have the trucks

or well working equipment to do it.

So it's, it's like, and then, then
you've got a little bit of piece in

that Spider Man meme, so you've got
exactly, you've got Newsome being like,

you should probably ask the mayor.

You've got the mayor being like, well,
the board of supervisors, you've got

the board of like, well, the mayor,
you know, so there's like, there's

going to be such a, I pray that there
is such an investigation and they

get down to the root of corruption
in this state and realizing that.

What go broke?

Like all of a sudden right now, we
don't care if the chief of police is

lesbian, is black, is white, is a woman,
do you have an effective strategy?

And so all, I think all of that is
going to start to now come to the

surface and you've got hardworking,
shout out to the first responders.

I saw footage of these firefighters
going into structures, saving lives,

saving pictures where they could,
because people are losing, like, it's

so emotional to lose your home, right?

So they're Doing incredible
work, but they're now under these

policies that they're trying
to, you know, navigate between.

And I saw this one clip of this woman
confronting Newsom and I thought like,

this is, this is it in a nutshell.

So he's on the phone.

I don't know if you guys have seen
it, but he's on the phone and he's

like, I'm literally on the phone
right now with the president.

I'm literally on the phone thinking
maybe that she'd be like, okay, well,

if you're, you're doing something,
she's like, put him on speaker.

I want to hear, put him on speaker.

And then he goes.

Well, I don't actually have service.

So what had happened was I will be on
the, I was, that is the epitome of lie.

Like, I don't know how else you define it.

Literally does not mean
what you think it means.

Literally means you actually
are on the phone with the right.

And it's this whole thing of like,
why isn't he picking up your call?

Like, why is there no water
coming out of these hydrants?

Why I'm trying to, and
now there's this whole.

whole, like if you watch his, I follow
his account, but there's this whole

now, like setting up the, uh, appearance
of, we were first responding, we're

coming, we're price gouging, we're
going to make sure that the landlords

can't like, we're protecting you.

And I'm just like, let the courageous.

Attorneys rise up.

Let the courageous investigators rise up.

Let the courageous whistleblowers rise
up to blow the lid off of the corruption

that I do think exists in Sacramento.

Right?

Yeah.

Down to the county level.

Yeah.

Vance: And the veneer is gone, right?

Because a lot of these people stayed in
power because of the veneer of virtue

signaling that Honestly, let's be real.

They're pretty good at doing you.

And I mean, but when it comes down
to one of the wealthiest, uh, areas

in California being literally an
inferno, um, the veneer is gone, right?

When houses are getting burned,
when families are getting displaced.

Um, there's no more games anymore.

No, we can't play games.

And we do get, right.

Got to get to the bottom of these things.

I like how you pointed out how
important civic engagement is.

Uh, Kim and I, we just moved into
a new neighborhood and I'm starting

to understand like why there are
differences in certain neighborhoods

and it's actually not even just wealth.

Yes.

Wealth does play a part, right?

But obviously the Palisades, one
of the wealthiest neighborhoods.

Also can get burned up right and
so it's not even just exclusively

wealth and I was talking to a police
officer about this Not too long ago.

I was like, huh, you know, how
do you fix certain things in

certain neighborhoods, right?

He's like well we respond to when
The neighborhood actually cares,

right?

Vance: And so I was even just talking
about, there's certain neighborhoods

that just like so many cars just like
piled up and like, everybody's like

parked illegally and it's like, seems
congested and seems claustrophobic.

He's like, yeah, um, it is that way
because, uh, people didn't actually.

Do their duty to like speak up
and actually raise it and complain

about it and things like that.

And not saying that, Hey, we all have
permission to complain, but there is

a level of, I think, civic engagement
that a collection of people can

have and actually make a difference.

I mean, we saw it in this
last election, right?

What started off as like this
grassroots effort that everybody kind

of dismissed eight years ago, right?

Um, is now like kind of the dominant
thought in America right now with the

whole mega movement and things like that.

And so those are a collective of people.

This doesn't happen by accident, right?

It's a collective of people that
are saying, Hey, I don't love that.

My city just consistently has.

These tent neighborhoods and
nobody's addressing it, right?

Nobody's addressing it.

There seems to be funding, but nobody's
actually bringing solutions to the

problem and everybody is kind of just
like, you know, the, the story of the

good Samaritan, they're just walking by.

Right.

And nobody's actually
stopping and saying, Hey.

How does this actually all work?

Like, how do our tax
dollars actually flow?

What power do we actually have?

You know, what actually makes it to the
docket of voting and things like that?

So, Michelle, talk to us about, you know,
how can somebody that might feel powerless

right now and might feel overwhelmed when
you talk about civic engagement, what are

just some basic things that you can do?

Ps Michelle: I mean, I, I like to
start small and then go big from there.

So if you live in a neighborhood,
do you have a neighborhood

or homeowners association?

There you go.

Do you have a, like a
neighborhood association?

So one of the areas now that we are,
um, supporting, um, with Hope Hangar

in San Jose is a neighborhood in
San Jose and they're organized, like

they're identified as, you know, low
income neighborhood, but they have

a, like a neighborhood association.

They have a president.

Who's job it is to listen to
the community, to the residents

there and to work with the city
to address some of those things.

So most likely you have someone in your
neighborhood and a lot of people like,

I can't be bothered cause I have been to
HOA meeting and it is like totally time.

You'll never get back.

However, if the right voices are in
there, cause it does tend to pull on

the ones that want to hear their voices.

It's like the people that didn't get
elected and student council that are

like, now I get some power, you know?

So you'd have to navigate some of that,
like local politics, but if you can like.

Find a way to at least say, okay,
how can I make my, my block better?

Um, and then what are some

Vance: decisions that
happen in that HOA level?

Like examples.

Ps Michelle: Oh, like every, I
mean, it depends how petty your

HOA is, but like it could be down
to the color of the paints of the

neighborhood, the cleanliness fence.

Do we have fence height?

Um, yeah.

New construction.

Um, if you like really identifying
what are you, uh, responsible for

as a homeowner or as a neighborhood.

Compared to your neighbors
and things like that.

So at that level you can literally affect
Does your child have a if you have a

park in the middle of your neighborhood?

So good Is that part clean enough?

Do we like who's working with the
city to make sure that you have

a voice for your local block?

So good um And so then from there you
can then look at the city level like

depending on some people live in small
cities like east palo Alto seven miles

by seven like you you're in a small area,
but um Or you live in a big city like LA

so depending on your city you can sort
of feel a little bit disenfranchised a

bit But if you start really just going
down to your city, like do you know

where city hall is just go visit right?

Meet some people and so what

Vance: decisions are being
made on the city level

Ps Michelle: at the city?

Like it depends how
the city is structured.

So a lot of cities have charters, right?

And so they'll in the charter
they'll specify the jurisdictions.

So some cities like um, like um, trying
to think of an example um East Palo

Alto, for example, the way that they're
structured is they have a city council

and, um, within the city council,
they sort of rotate the mayor seat.

So you have some cities where you
actually don't vote for your mayor,

you actually vote for the city council.

And then at the city council level,
they work, um, sometimes they'll

work directly with the school
districts is through the city.

Sometimes they'll work with.

So like,

Vance: uh, educational agendas, um, you
can have influence on, uh, we're talking,

uh, conditional use permits for if
there's vacancy in that main strip mall

in your city, what type of business do
you want in there to benefit the city?

And things like that.

People are literally
making these decisions.

Like as a church, right?

When we were considering actually a
building in East Palo Alto, we would

have to apply for a conditional use
permit to be able to assemble in that

specific place that we're looking at.

And the city has a power to say, Vibe.

You can be there or vibe.

You can't.

And then the city has to rise up
and say, do we want a church here?

Like, can that church benefit
the members of this community?

And I think people understand there's
actually a lot of critical decision

making power that exists in these halls.

So if you were to

Arun: consider like, like the homelessness
in San Francisco and the Ability for them

to kind of like stay wherever they want.

Is that a city level?

Oh, yeah So that is a hundred
percent, but I feel like people in

sf would have you know gathered.

Well, they have now right?

So london braid is out.

Mm hmm.

Yeah,

Vance: they hired a new mayor But I mean
she she had been there for so long Right.

They had uh that uh, d.

a.

Uh, chesa budin Um who literally
was all about Not prosecuting

criminals like they, they created.

So this is where it matters, right?

They created policies like you
can rob up to a thousand dollars.

So you can rob 999, but
you can't do anything.

You can't prosecute that.

Like, so that's why Walgreens all
over the city are getting rated.

Cause you still quite a bit of stuff
for 999, even with inflation, you can

get, you know, a couple of days worth of
stuff and you just get overrun because

even policies like that is permission.

Arun: Exactly.

That goes up to a vote, right?

That those kinds of
policies, or is that just.

They can make those decisions.

Good question.

Ps Michelle: So what happens is city
council will have city council meetings

where they do have public comments.

So depending on like really important
things, technically what they're

supposed to do is, you know, they'll
have, this is what's on the agenda.

They'll discuss it.

They might have closed door.

There's acts and things that govern when
it needs to be a closed door session

versus open for public, but the public can
generally come in, um, give their opinion.

And so if it is like, um,
something that, uh, to your point

earlier, Show up in mass, right?

Like that's where like, for example,
public opinion, it is like, you know,

if there's going to be a street that
they want to now say like, Hey, if you

have an RV, you can park on the street.

I guarantee you, everyone that lives on
that street will find that when that's

on the agenda, they'll show up and then
you'll be able to, and then they'll take,

take that into consideration by the vote.

So the ultimate decision making is
by those you elect, but they do.

Um, like if there's overwhelmingly
public support or, um, or, you know, non

disapproval of the schools, sway them.

And that's where you have a
lot of back room channeling.

That's where you have a lot of
like, Oh, so and so is on the city

council, but their kid plays sports.

So when they're at the sports game, those
have, you're not supposed to, right?

You're like, or not, but
like, that's how it happens.

That's how it, that's how a lot
of these decisions ultimately

follow the flow of the money.

And you're like, okay,
you actually made that.

Decision because which is why again
going back to la let's do an invest

like all these decisions that had
been made to lead to This moment.

Yeah, including again.

I still want answers to why she's in
ghana for the president's inauguration and

Vance: just the lack of leadership
Um, oh, I just saw a clip, right?

Uh, they're just asking some
of the leaders, like, Hey,

so what's going to happen?

There's no answer.

There's no answer.

There's no answer.

Not even like an answer of just
like trying to be politically

correct or anything like that.

It's just like, no answer.

Right.

And it's just, it's a lack of leadership.

Ps Michelle: No, I think they
also, they've got lawyers

that say, don't say a thing.

Don't say what you say.

Can and will be used against
you in the court of law.

No, it is.

And the people that suffer,
it's the people that suffer.

Right.

Um, and so I think, yeah.

And then the County
level is where I think.

I, I, I love that level because
counties then oversee multiple seeded

and usually the county, um, oversees,
um, you know, our emergency services.

So when you call 911 dispatch, that's
usually those dispatches are at

the county level so that depending
on the city, you're not like,

you know, they can control where
the emergency vehicles are more.

So again, all counties and cities and
everything run, they run superintendent

Vance: of the schools.

Superintendent is on the county level

Ps Michelle: that's or city level that's
on the city because it's by districts.

Got it So for example, yeah, it's
really so so for example ravenswood

school district has Um, schools from
East Palo Alto and East Menlo Park.

So it's two different, but it's
not that, but there's a San Mateo

County that oversees all the school
districts within that county.

Um, so yeah, so you, you have education
sort of flows at all three levels in a lot

of ways because it's locally located in
the city and then they've got the county,

but I think like even knowing how your
board of supervisors attending your county

meetings, um, not all the time, but just
see what's on the agenda, see what, what

the city's talking about, what they're
proposing, how this will affect you.

Um, yeah.

Just go to the website make
sure you know who's in power.

And so when the ballot comes up You're
not trying to then educate yourself.

Yeah, because that's a lot to try and do

Arun: so like the county the city
All have a website with an agenda.

Yeah, and that you can check.

Yeah, it all has to be public

Ps Michelle: Again, remember these
government officials work for you.

Yeah

Vance: public servants.

They

Ps Michelle: are literally You, if you're
not, uh, if you're not at home, uh,

employer, you do have employees, right?

Like as a taxpayer, you've got
people that are working for you.

And the moment you don't feel like whether
it's, you know, criminal justice, whatever

it is, whatever area you're feeling like,
actually, my kids are not doing like,

there is a way you can get your voice.

Now there is.

Definitely a distribution of power.

Wealth is definitely a factor.

So there are communities that are able
to more easily navigate language skills

is definitely a factor, um, that you
can definitely education, like being

able to know how to sort of, and not
education, like formal education, but

just knowing how the game is played a bit.

I think some people are going into
these a little bit naive, but I do

think at the end of the day, the
beautiful thing about the U S is.

It really is fundamentally we,
the people all the way down to its

smallest unit, um, which is the family.

So it's like, there is a way that,
and the Bible is really clear on

how government should be structured.

There should be levels.

There should be like, it's really
well structured in that way.

But I don't, I do think we, uh, turn
over so much power and we saw that.

But what about

Vance: this line at that?

Like, Oh, I don't want to be political.

I'm a citizen of heaven.

And I'm like, but you're also
a citizen of East Palo Alto.

Like it's both.

It's not like either or.

Yes, we are citizens of heaven.

But like, literally, we've got
a lot of problems in our city.

And we're supposed to
bring heaven down to earth.

You know what I mean?

It's not like citizen of heaven
means I get to float above.

And I'm like transcendent.

Yeah, maybe in my spirit and my soul, I
can have peace beyond the circumstance

because you can't control everything,
but you can't make a contribution, right?

And collectively, we, the
people can make a difference.

I think I got restored to my
faith in that because of this

last election cycle, right?

Where, yeah, I just felt like if it didn't
go the way that it did, um, You know,

it would just be very suspect to me.

And the only reason why I said, um, I was
encouraged by it is because everything

and, you know, maybe I'm in an echo
chamber, but generally speaking, I felt

the vibe shift before even the election.

Yeah.

And so I would have been just so suspect
if it didn't go the way that it did.

And because it did, I
was like, Oh, okay, cool.

Like, it seems like the
people are being hurt.

It seems like the, and there's probably
still corruption, but like, it seems like

the votes were actually getting counted,
you know, and all that type of stuff.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Arun: No, definitely.

So what do you think the checks and
balances then failed for LA specifically?

If we look at.

The fires, these didn't happen
like years and years ago.

It happened like, like maybe
in the last 10, 15 years.

We've seen these fires occur.

Um, and so there was like a known
problem that we need to solve, but,

and so people probably did speak up.

They did probably contact
their local governments.

There's an expectation that, you know,
we're going to be protected if, you

know, there's going to be some way
to protect us if the fires kick up.

Where do you think that checks
and balances failed for the local

kind of government in California?

Ps Michelle: Oh, I, I think they, um,
cause a lot of these decisions, right?

So for example, um, how many people
go to the, their local city budget

community meeting, um, we're actually
trying to see if we can get that budget

meeting for San Jose, the city of San
Javier in our building and the chicks.

I do think it's so important that
we have people coming into here.

Like here's how we're proposing
to spend your money as a city.

And I don't know that that
many people were in the room

that could have been like, Hey,
you're looking at cutting budget.

Fire funding, and I understand on like,
let me ask questions about this, right?

So you've got probably people
not fully understanding and

then all these decisions.

It's really complicated because it's
so hard to connect all the dots, right?

It's really like now in hindsight, we can
see how it all sort of plays together.

Like, okay, if they're underfunded
and then also you've got, you

know, whatever little fish
you're trying to save upstream.

And so you're cutting the flow
of water and like, you can see

now how it all connects together.

Um, the, uh, before that, it's hard to
see how that decision linked to that

decision linked to that decision, unless
you have really healthy, integrous

leaders, because that is their role
is to be able to have those right.

You know, the average citizen
can't keep up with all of that.

So I think we need a changing
of the God in California.

Oh, it's happening.

Yeah.

And I'm here for it.

All the people that left California.

Come back.

It's gonna be good.

It's gonna get good because I think
people did it's gonna get good It's

gonna get like this is a beautiful state.

It's like

Vance: Despite yeah, which is great.

Not great leadership, right?

It's still incredible.

Yeah, but just watch Yeah,

Ps Michelle: I think it's been like
I think once we get The right lead.

And again, I'm not even saying like
they all have to be Republicans, all

Democrat, whatever, but it's like going
back to that, that check and balance

where you have people that are really
genuinely asking the right questions,

trying to figure, and no state's going
to be perfect, but there are states

doing it better, like, yeah, definitely.

And you see it in the, in the
people underneath flourishing.

Arun: Yeah.

Do you guys remember when
it shifted for California?

To the worst, do you remember a day when
it was alright and things were going well?

I don't know, I don't know if I
remember it because I wasn't super

involved in like that level of
thinking at like a government level,

but I'm curious if you guys remember.

It must

Ps Michelle: have been because it
became what, the, one of the world's

largest economies, so I, I don't know.

Vance: Yeah, I mean a lot of sins can
get covered when you have so much wealth.

Yeah, right I mean just the tech boom
Which has been kind of the central

driving economic force honestly for
the world Definitely the United States

of America has pretty much happened
in the last two decades In San

Francisco and Silicon Valley, right?

Literally in Northern California, right?

And when literally, uh, most of the, you
know, public stock market growth in the

last two decades is consolidated with
like seven companies and all of them are

based within Cupertino Mountain View, San
Francisco, you know, Palo Alto, right?

Um, when you have just that much
extravagant wealth, you could Start

thinking that, man, we're, we're
governing this place really good,

you know, all that type of stuff,
but maybe you misinterpreted it.

Maybe it just happened in spite of you.

And then obviously with success breeds
a lot of, um, uh, you know, lack

of continuing to want to innovate
and hold leaders accountable and

things like that, because there's.

A certain level of comfortability, right?

It's like, we must be doing good
because you know, people have

money here and things like that.

And so I think it, that, that bred a lot
of complacency, um, that is now we're

just starting to see the effects of it.

I think a lot of what we're seeing
today is actually the effects of us

ignoring it for eight years, right?

Who's in, who's in charge, the decisions
that they're making and things like that.

And we're just starting to
see the effects of it now.

And so people are just starting to
wake up to the fact that, Oh wow, we

really need to pay attention to this.

And

Ps Michelle: I think California typically
like they focus so much on social

justice stuff in the state, right?

Like it's like we're gonna be the
leaders in women this and diversity

this and this and this and you're right
when it comes down to people's homes

burning Like it's it's at that point.

No one's And I think if you look at U.

S.

history, even like, and we were just
talking about that earlier, how social

justice movements sort of over, like those
conversations get so emotional and so

big, so they overshadow all other things.

When you talk about U.

S.

history, it's going to
come up slavery, right?

You're not going to, you're not
going to talk about the Civil

War without bringing up slavery.

And you're not going to talk
about the, when you talk about

COVID, BLM movement, like there's
always been like some sort of.

Emotionally charged, um, focus
that can help people sort of,

and I, I, and I'm not listening.

Like, I think people have been
saying it, but sometimes I'm

wondering if that's like a, like,
look at the shiny thing over here.

Ignore, ignore all of the actual
practical things of fundamental

to a functioning society.

Um, and I think this last election
showed that like, look, people are

generally like, I'm not gonna, I'm
not trying to be mean, live how you

want, but if I can't put food on my
table, I'm going to vote for who I

think will give me food on my table.

There's, like we said, there's a
basic fundamental level of surviving

and thriving that people want to do.

And they don't care about whether
you're lesbian or whether, I'm not

going to forsake my own personal
interest in my family so that

I can see your DEI agenda come.

And I think that's what we're going to
start to see in California is everyday

people rising up and being like, look,
we, We can actually be have common

sense policies about some of these.

Oh, we're

Vance: going back definitely
to a performance based culture

really fantastic Right.

I mean I got a a text from my sister
in law um and Uh, you know, I was just

hearing some stuff about what's happening
at meta right and zuck is like Yeah.

Right.

Either that or he just knows how to play
the game because, because literally I

think they're going to a model and I
think they do this at other companies

like intercom and things like that,
where basically the bottom five to 10

percent of performers every cycle are
literally just automatically fired.

Yeah.

Like turning your badge.

Yeah.

Like if you've got a certain mark, right.

It's not even a conversation.

It's just, you're fired, you know?

And so we are definitely
going back to, Hey.

It was fun and game guys
for the last four years.

Like it must've been cushy, but we
got to start performing because he's a

type of guy, he's competitive, right?

Like he's fighting now and you
know, all that type of stuff.

Like I'm sure that he wants
to win the AI war, right?

I'm sure that this is a move that he's
making of like, no, we're going back

to the roots of when I was personally
coding for like 22 hours a day, like

day in and day out at this company.

And that's why you all have jobs.

Like we're going back to that.

Right.

By the way, FYI, you know what I mean?

Like I heard Sergei came
back to the office at Google.

He's coding like 20 hours a day.

He's like, we're going
back to exceptionalism.

We're going back to what created even
just the impetus of why these companies

became great in the first place, right?

It wasn't because of perks and inclusivity
and not stepping on each other's toes and

you know, all that type of stuff, right?

Um, it was because we had
a commitment to our craft.

We had a commitment to actually
creating solutions, uh, for

the customers that we serve.

Yeah.

Do

Ps Michelle: you think we will still
keep diversity in how people have, like,

what lent, what led to people being like,
Hey, is there some disadvantage groups?

Do you think as we go to performance,
people will be surprised that, Hey,

maybe actually this is not what was
keeping certain people out of it.

It's

Vance: interesting, huh?

I feel like, um, the
pendulum always swings.

Right.

So obviously it's swinging
strong anti DEI right now.

It's swinging strong conservatism, right?

That's like in vogue now, right?

It wasn't in vogue for a really long
time, if ever in the Silicon Valley.

Right.

Uh, probably what has to happen.

I would assume on the democratic side is
an abandoning of those things that are

clearly like super left woke ideology.

If you know, the democratic party is
going to be taken seriously again.

Right.

And I do think if it does get,
get taken seriously again, there

probably is something in the
message around progressivism.

That's non woke.

That, uh, you know, a lot of people
will still believe is valid, right?

Um, and so as strong as there
is the anti DEI people, there's

still strong pro DEI people.

I mean, Mark Cuban is still
like very much a big advocate.

Um, and I was just listening,
uh, I try to listen to a lot

of different things, right?

I was listening to the
Breakfast Club the other day.

You know, they're talking about like
how, you know, the world's going to hell,

you know, and all that type of stuff
because of these, they call it super right

wing ideologies and things like that.

Um, and so there's still definitely points
of view being had in all different levels.

Uh, and we obviously live
in the Silicon Valley.

And so I still have a lot of
friends that are very much scared.

About the next four years and things like
that, as much as I have friends that are

very optimistic about the next four years.

And so I don't think that, um, a
lot of the ideologies of what, um,

I mean, DEI was DEI before George
Floyd, by the way, like those

initiatives were already happening.

If anything, it just
accelerated like crazy.

Yeah, right.

Um, in the pandemic and, uh, kind of in
the BLM movement and things like that.

But those things were
already being set up, right?

Like corporate social responsibility,
that whole wave, like all those things

were being set up, that was actually CSR
was a precursor to then the evolution.

Part of it became DEI, right?

Um, ESG was.

Yeah.

The precursor, like all these
three letter words are like these,

these things were the precursor.

Um, and, uh, it had been
happening for a while.

And so I don't think there's going
to be a complete departure of it.

And part of the reason is because
there's still a lot of money in it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

You got to follow the money.

Yeah.

There's still ETFs.

There's still hedge funds.

There's still, uh, you know,
really, really big bankers that

are banking on these industries.

Right.

And they're not going to just lay down.

And say no more with this.

Yeah, they're they're they just
have to reinvent it now, right?

Yeah, because it's it's definitely
not as popular as it was.

Arun: Yeah, and there was good intentions
with all these efforts I mean for the

most part right you start with good
intentions and then you just you know

You stray a little bit too far to one
extreme and then you got to kind of

come back right and I think That is what
you're saying with the pendulum, right?

It kind of swings.

How would you describe
the good intentions?

Ps Michelle: Yeah, I'm curious.

Arun: Uh, with DEI and like being,
I think it was this idea of you

look at the metrics and you see
that there's not enough diversity.

And so maybe it's, Oh, are
we giving women enough of an

opportunity to join tech jobs?

Are we giving other minorities enough
of an opportunity to join tech jobs?

And so I think if that was, I don't
know, I wasn't there when it started,

but if that was the intention of making
sure people got the right opportunities.

Then it was like, okay, that makes sense.

But then if it was like, we will
give you that opportunity, even

if you're qualified or not, that's
when it went too far, right?

It was just like, at least you have
the chance of having an opportunity.

Ps Michelle: Yeah, I saw, um, an article
looking at affirmative action in schools.

And now the most, I can't remember
if it was Duke or Harvard, one of the

schools, like they're Asian admin.

Midas rate is just plummeted.

And I think the very suits were
brought by the Asian community.

And so you've got a pro black
site, but it was basically like,

Oh, how do you like it now?

You know, like, like you, you guys brought
this suit now, look what's happened.

You know?

Um, and so I'm, I'm actually curious.

I want to follow college admission
rates going forward because I, I do

think we have a different cultural tie.

I think like Gen Z is
definitely different.

I think the way that we're
now way more connected, um,

through social media, et cetera.

So.

Culture is very much integrated.

I think it would be odd to go to a company
that's all white, not right now, even with

or without DEI for, for this generation
that's coming up, they're just used

to inclusive, like they're, depending
on how you grow up, but generally

speaking, I'm very California centric.

It's so diverse when you
just step out on the street.

Right.

So I think they will church.

Yeah.

I think that would be just
a natural sense of like.

If it is too one way for too long,
it's like, wait, what's going on here?

Um, so I do think there might be some
course correction But I'm I think the

people that are pro DEI, the people
that are scared are just waiting for

there to be like Black people going
back into like not as good jobs.

There's gonna be less women in like
Banking like all these pro like man,

I thought my daughter will have a role
model as a president But like now there's

just some of the old men that are like,
whatever it might be and i'm just i'm

i'm I really do sense that that I don't
think that's going to be the case.

I think you have very well um Merited
people of color of gender of all

different things Um, and with the right
lead that's why leadership matters with

the right leader over the institution
of the organization The right people

will rise up, but I think there is
distrust that that's hip Able to

happen without training of implicit
bias and are you looking for the right

thing and you're looking for the name?

And I was telling someone who does college
admission interviews and they're now

not allowed to us I want anything about
their race or anything about like or

even report that onto the form So it's
like there is a lot of like now blind

merit Sort of coming in that i'm hoping
though But then you have to I think

what which have the public conversation
where people get frustrated is that but

who's addressing the fact that there?

Had been historically marginalized
groups of people in this country

And I think that's where it's like,
well, let's get on the ground.

Let's actually look at the school
systems Let's look at our education

system I don't know if you've seen
these videos of like chinese schools and

what they're doing and they look at u.

s schools and we're like Okay, I
love come and call math, but I need

you know, like I'll educate what
we're actually teaching in the school

system Are we actually teaching them
to be competitive not in this world,

but in the world they're gonna be.

Oh my god, right?

And so I think when we look at
that that's probably more where the

conversation needs to happen is like,
okay Let's actually get matter of

Vance: emphasis is probably
like One of those keys, huh?

Yeah.

It's like, what are we emphasizing?

I mean, we have so many problems.

Like we can probably point to so many
stats and so many problems, but it's like,

you know, I'm a former product manager.

It's kind of like you start, you
have to start stack ranking so we

can actually accomplish something
in an order of importance.

Right.

And so sometimes it's like,
maybe the route is not to be

completely dismissive of something.

Right.

But maybe to highlight it.

Right.

Okay.

What should we emphasize though?

What should we prioritize
in society right now?

I think the culmination of this,
somebody put this clip in front of

me recently, I think it was like peak
2021 or 2022 or something like that.

Um, before the kind of this last
cycle and this whole vibe shift

happened, it was a pretty prominent
pastor in Texas in the reformed

community there at this conference.

And it was probably like,
uh, the culmination of.

A microcosm of the discourse in the
macro that's kind of happening right

now, which is he's like on stage at
this conference and he's like, if I had

the choice, if I'm hiring on my staff
and I have the choice between a black

six and a white seven, best believe.

I'm hiring the black six
and then it was just uproar.

It was like half were like cheering,
like the other half were like, boo.

You know what I mean?

And I'm not going to
make a statement on that.

I'm just going to say, let's
make a statement on that.

No, I'm just going to say a black

Ps Michelle: six or a white
seven or an Asian eight.

Filipino nine.

You best believe Filipino nine

Vance: not going to get it.

Those Asians are privileged.

No, no.

It's just like.

You know, it's interesting, right?

And, and I, and I think there's so many
themes and even just that example of

like Theologically, how does that land?

Yeah, you know what I mean?

Like, okay, so we're gonna treat
people differently based on their

But then but but then also like I
hear what you're saying about how

do we grapple with also addressing?

Yeah You know, it's like
it's Both things can be true.

Yeah, and I think

Ps Michelle: that's where the
conservative movement sort of loses

the upcoming generation a lot of times.

And there is a growing number of like,
you go, you see, you know, depending

on what you watch, if you watch
Charlie Cook, you'll think all college

students are like so conservative now.

But when you talk to college
students, it's pretty liberal

still on these campuses.

Oh, yeah.

And I think part of it is because there
hasn't been a clear articulation to what

we talked about, about being at the Hope
Hangar of, hey, you actually are, believe

your eyes, you are still, I've seen that
there are societal issues in our nation.

Here's a pathway.

People want a clear
pathway of how can I help?

And what the Democrats did and
I'll do and progressives do is

they point a very clear thing.

Unfortunately, their solutions
are very surface level.

Then let's just look at the surface.

If they're black, if they're
lesbian, if they're this, then we

just give them opportunities, right?

Versus like, actually, let's go to
the structures underneath it and see

what is it that's leading us to have.

That, that, that's a

Vance: key.

What you said earlier is I feel like we
swing too hard on the end outcome metrics.

Yes.

Yeah.

And we're like, we're looking at that
and we're influencing our decisions

based on the end outcome metrics.

What about the entry point?

Metrics, right?

It's like, do people
even have shots on goal?

Maybe that's like the metric we
focus on, not like the outcome

of who ultimately gets hired.

Does that make sense?

And so I know I'm, it's
probably more complex than that.

I'm not an expert in this
and I could be wrong.

It's just, that's where my mind goes
from a first principle standpoint.

It's like, we can't make all the
decisions based on like, Oh, because

these stats are this way outcome, right?

That means we just need to.

You know, um synthetically make
decisions so that we're going to

change those outcome based stats,
but we haven't even fixed the core

Arun: Right.

Yeah of the root

Vance: of what the problem might be Yeah,

Arun: and this happens in like I
don't know if I have to relate it to

how it happens in tech companies when
you want to get promoted It really is

the end goal that gets you promoted.

It's not these kind of surface
level things that you might not

see immediately, but are like
building a good infrastructure for

you to be able to do something.

Right.

Absolutely.

Um, and so I'm assuming that's
exactly how it goes in government.

Right.

When you want to get elected,
when you want to get, it's

what surface, what can I show?

Ps Michelle: If I can show my cabinet is.

So diverse.

Look at us.

Vote for us.

It doesn't do anything for anybody, but
I don't know if I can write it down.

But I've got the, I've got the lesbian,
I've got the black, I've got the

disabled, I've got the, I've got the,
it looks, look at us, it's shiny.

But then when substance comes like
a fire, when like a situation like

homelessness, all these things, it's like.

Do we actually have the right people
at the table at the entry point?

Did we block out because we are
trying to get to that outcome?

And I think, you know, people will say in
the ideal world, you're doing both, right?

You're looking at the entry point and
you're looking at the outcomes and

you're trying to look, you know, but I
think there is an analysis, which so.

We're so results driven like
that's where the money is.

That's where the votes are.

That's the easiest thing to understand
That you need a group of people young

people i'm talking to you like that are
willing to do the work roll up their

sleeves and get to the To the roots of
some of these things and say hey actually

this is why we're landing in this place
um, and it comes down I think civic

engagement is going to be game changer if
we can and and For a lot of these smaller

groups of like the I'll just use LGBTQ
like Percentage wise in this nation.

They're a very small percentage, but
they've learned really well how to

mobilize even from a young age the
youngest Of how to champion, how

to advocate, how to speak up, and
it's influenced an entire nation,

such a small, and I, so I take from
them like, wow, there is real power,

you don't need necessarily a whole
lot, like the entire nation, if you

have a strong, concentrated, it.

Clear, like goal United,
you can accomplish them up.

And that's what we, you
know, you see, well,

Vance: Metta just took tampons
out of the men's bathroom.

Oh yeah.

Ps Michelle: That's where we're at.

No, I'm just saying like,

Vance: like, it's, it's, it's funny
because then what started surfacing I saw

was actually for like the whole past year.

Right.

There was different chatter.

There's these internal chats, right.

And there's these internal, like.

All staffs and people would be
chatting in the internal chat.

Like, is there anybody brave enough to ask
about if it's a good amount of resources

to put tampons in the men's bathroom?

Can somebody, is anybody courageous enough
to ask how many times that's been used?

Um, like the usage rate, the
engagement rate of that, maybe like

that real estate could be used for
something and like people are just

so scared, but it's like, wow, 99.

8 percent of people are confused and 99.

8 percent of people for years.

It's been there for years, haven't
said anything until now, until

like gold chain Zuck is like based.

And it's kind of like, now Google's
going to probably take it out now.

Cause they still have it.

Right.

Like I have some friends there.

They're like, yeah, that's
probably going to go out now.

Cause Meta is like a trendsetter
sometimes for Google.

And so it's just like.

These things are so crazy.

Arun: That's such a good point about like,
sometimes I think when you're, you're

living, you just want to go with the flow.

So you're not, you know, at
risk of getting in trouble.

And so like things like this,
like you see it and you're like,

I guess that's the way it is.

No, no, no.

Vance: People love to be led.

Yeah.

People love to be sheep.

Honestly, sometimes I do.

Because, you know, it's like those things.

Have you seen that, um, TikTok
or that, uh, Instagram reel?

It's this girl that kind of
puts her dad on blast a little

bit in the funny, cool way.

Where she always like every Friday before
his happy hour with his buddies, he's like

in his fifties or something like that.

They go to a local pub and they drink
beer and watch the game together.

But he always brings an agenda on a
piece of napkin of like the five things

that he's going to bring up in the
conversation and just kind of has it out.

But honestly, as kind of funny that is,
and she's gone viral for it cause she does

it like every Friday and things like that.

People.

Yeah.

People need that person.

Yeah.

People love that person.

Yes, they do.

Because people love to be led.

They do.

It's like, you love Bob that brings the
agenda because it makes it less awkward.

Right.

Like you're, you're like flowing
through life and like, like I'm

a leader that loves to be led.

Like, you know what I mean?

Like, and so that's the thing, right?

It's like, it's when, when there's a
lack of sane leadership, when there's

a lack of integrous leadership.

Right.

Hope people will just follow.

Ps Michelle: Right.

And it's the dangerous
thing about leadership.

It's so dangerous.

If you, if you, if you're a person that
likes to be in charge and you meet a

group of people that like to be led, it
is a dangerous combination because truth

is nowhere to be found in that room.

Um, and so that's, I mean, I feel like.

The church, I, we say is the answer.

It's why we do what we do.

Well, there's objective truth, right?

In the Bible.

So that helps lead us.

And then there is the ultimate
leader, Jesus Christ himself, who

points us to how we are to govern
ourselves, how we're to lead.

I came to serve, not to be served.

So when we're in a room, we're not.

I'm here to like, it's listening
skills is not something that's, um, D

like it comes from the Bible, right?

Like be slow to speak.

It's like the principles of good
leadership you can find in the

Bible and in Christ's model for us.

And so when we have more godly leaders,
you will have a flourishing nation.

It's not that we are like, um,
Christian nationalists because I

want to eradicate all, but no, but.

Christians done right done the biblical
way really is what like we all desire

and crave and at the heart of it.

And so, yeah, I feel like we're,
we're probably going to see

a, I'm, I'm believing a rise
of godly leadership in this.

State in our County level.

I'm seeing that, um, in the
conversations I'm having with

people, I'm getting people engaged.

I was talking to someone at the
Hope Hangar and she's like, I was

going to apply for this position.

And I'm like, do it, do it, apply for it.

Like, it's like in the small, like the
city of Sunnyvale has an opening for,

I can't remember what board it is,
but I'm like, get on there because at

the very least, like, even if you're,
you know, you just, you learn people's

name, you learn, oh, that's Kathy.

That's the clerk for that.

Oh, that's Bob.

And so when you need something,
you're like, Hey Kathy, do you

think, get me a meeting with.

So and so and Bob is like, yeah, that's
how these things, it's all relationship.

It's all who, you know, it's all having
like, Oh, I'm going to bring you cookies.

Oh, I heard you were sick.

Here's some chicken.

Like it's all that sort of like, and
it's, I think that's actually beautiful

where it gets perverted is where you
have big money coming in and all that

kind of stuff, but I think we're going
to see a rise of people realizing

like as more and more of these.

Uh, you know, we're

Vance: going to see a
rise of righteous leaders.

I believe it for sure.

A revival of righteous leaders,
a revival of honestly, Christian

stepping up, um, and bringing biblical
principle, uh, bringing Christian

principles in these places because
ultimately I believe those principles

are going to lead to flourishing.

Right.

And here's the thing, like just because,
uh, you are a Christian and that

should be your first position, your
first position, your first identity.

Should be Christian.

Your first identity should be, yes,
a citizen of heaven, a follower of

Jesus Christ, that should be your first
identity, but that doesn't mean you have

to negate all of your other identities.

I'm not advocating for an identity crisis.

I'm just saying I'm a Christian.

I'm also Filipino.

I'm also from Kent, Washington.

I'm also right.

The son of my mother and my
father, you know what I mean?

Like I'm all those things, right?

My first position is in Christ for sure.

But.

But you can still have a healthy
sense of pride and acknowledgement,

um, and redeem all those things
from those different subcultures.

But it is sub to Christ.

It is sub to what we're
collectively doing as a church.

And you've seen

Ps Michelle: him have, he recreated his.

The initial, the disciples, the initial
prominent fathers of the church, he

didn't take them out of isolation of
the context of what they were doing.

And like, now you will be theological
scribes and you will stay with me.

No, for three years, they walked with him.

They dined with him.

They, he used their craft.

He would say, the kingdom
of heaven is like this.

And they would be like, Oh, I get that.

Cause I was efficient.

Like, you know, like he
would use their crafts.

He would use all the.

The things that made them who
they were to further his kingdom.

And I love what, so sorry, you're good.

I'm new here.

Um, but I love what like, um,
hype is doing specifically

where it is giving people.

I think past Adam said this, um, to
hype sessions ago, where it's like

when he was explaining what hype
is and it's like, man, the coolest

moments where people realize like.

Oh, what I'm, what I thought
was my identity is actually

a tool for the kingdom.

Like it's, it's something I
can use to further the kingdom.

It's something I can fully embrace
and stand in and be like, man, I'm

a boss CEO, but I do, I'm a boss
CEO to further the kingdom of God.

I'm a, I'm a venture capitalist.

think about ways to how can I fund
these solutions and these businesses

to further to bring heaven to earth and
what I so I love that because sometimes

we think church and of like the Sunday
morning 9am to 12pm time block and then

everything else is just secular right but
it's like this realization that bringing

heaven to earth is a full ownership
of All the identities God's given us.

And he wants to use all
of that and using that.

Yes.

And saying like, man, I look, I'm,
I'm bl I have, I love culture.

I love rhythm.

I love spice.

I love flavor.

You need us?

Yes.

You need we need each other.

We need No.

Vance: Yeah.

Ps Michelle: Sorry.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's right.

We need each other.

We need each other.

No, but yes, but it's true.

It's so true.

We need you.

We need

Vance: each other.

It's so true.

And, and Paul was a poster child of that.

What a good example.

He was, he was.

Well, he has his famous verse about,
I am all things to all men, but in

situations, he showed that he modeled it.

When he went in a meeting with
Caesar, he's like, Hey, by

the way, I'm Roman citizen.

Yeah.

You guys are trying to beat me up.

Right.

I'm a, I'm a put my Roman citizenship up.

Like I am like, I'm a voting member.

Yeah.

You can't, you can't do what
you're doing to me right now.

And I demand a meeting.

Paul understood government.

Paul understood civic engagement.

And you heard a call.

But then also when he's making
his speeches, he also says,

I'm also of Jewish heritage.

Yes.

So he's like, I can
relate to you in that way.

You know what I mean?

Like, I'm not, I'm not, um,
abdicating my ethnicity right now,

but in all things I'm a slave for

Ps Michelle: Christ.

Like in all things I'm sub to
being that slave for Christ.

And you see people promote
their other identities over,

that's where it gets mixed up.

That's where you have DEI go awry.

That's where you have, um, I
mean, I always say the gospel

is not a social justice message.

Believe it or not, the
idea of the gospel is not.

We're here to fix, like they said,
the poor will always be with you.

And for someone who's in non profit,
that's kind of discouraging because

I'm like, I'm trying to put myself out
of business, but if you go with the

healthy perspective, there's like, okay,
then what's the point of the good news?

And the good news is no, no, no.

A kingdom is now being established
and there's a new rule and

reign that's coming among you.

And so despite your current present
circumstances, there is a better way

that we can all live and you can walk
towards that and that that's what should.

It's like we're actually advancing the
kingdom here through our businesses,

through education, through all
these things that we may not see

it on, you know, on this side, but
it's gonna, it's going to manifest.

Let's still do the works.

That's still fixes, but let's
still save as many people.

Go to take on hell with a water pistol,
whatever it might be that you need to do.

And let's go, let's go, let's rise
up like we're not backing down.

Like, look, I'm, I've got this righteous
indignation inside of me now to fight.

Like I've never had before to leave
a legacy on this earth, to see my

kids rise up like never before.

There is a conviction that I have
that I refuse to let evil win.

I refuse to let it win in any
zone, in any way, whether it's

black, whether it's white.

So I'm going to call it out.

I look.

And there was a like not all skin
color skin Focus is kinfolk, right?

Just because you are same skin color to
me, same gender to me, same identity.

Is it good or is it evil?

Mm-hmm.

And that's what I'm gonna
always propose, you know?

And I think you're gonna see now a
clar a clear, a clarity of that in

the next, in this next, uh, iteration.

Yeah.

I love that

Arun: imagery of like this sub identity,
but 'cause you need God in all things.

Yeah.

It's not that you have this identity of
you're being Christian and then you have

these sub identities that are separate.

Yeah.

They all flow from there
because people need to relate.

To those other identities you have,
like, you're Filipino, I'm Indian.

People relate to that of me.

But if God comes through in that, and now
I'm that Christian Indian in my culture,

and they can see that, that like stems
out and that's how they relate with me.

And they're like, oh wow.

Why is he an Indian?

But he's a little bit different
than the other Indian.

Yeah.

Well we see it in

Vance: biblically from Old
Testament to New Testament.

Uh, part of God's plan, right?

Because Tower of Babel.

Mm.

Yep.

Right.

All of a sudden they are trying
to build structures to get to God.

Mm-hmm . Right?

And then obviously they get.

Now confused in their language,
they can't communicate.

They can't unify, right?

And because they can't unify,
they can't finish the Tower of

Babel to actually get to God.

And so they fall short of their goal.

Uh, but in a similar fashion
in the upper room, right?

It wasn't that they could get to God.

They waited in the upper
room and God came to them.

And then what started happening again,
they start speaking in different tongues.

And so the distinction of tongues,
the distinction of speaking

in different languages has
always been part of God's plan.

It's just this time there wasn't
disunity, there was unity because

they can understand even though
we're speaking different languages,

there was a Holy Spirit now uniting
us for one purpose and one cause.

And so literally 3, 000 were added.

And so literally it wasn't God's
plan for us to be just homogenous.

It's always been God's plan
for us to have diversity.

It's always been God's plan to, for us
to have different foods and flavors.

It's always been God's plan
for us to speak in different

languages and in different tongues.

It's just that he wanted us to do so
in a way that is unified, acknowledging

we can't do anything to get to him
because he's already come to us.

And that's the good news.

And if we can say that good news
in all of our different industries,

all over different languages, all
over different contexts, that's

literally part of what vibes.

Mission is, is that it's not this, you
know, homogenous mission of, we're just

going to be this tech church in the
Silicon Valley and that's all we do.

And we're just going to be one big mate.

It's like literally Vive Saigon is
probably the most different, you know,

we've ever ventured to go out to.

And we literally have people that have
just moved there, um, because they are

going to now adopt, learn, but then
also hopefully redeem a whole culture.

For kingdom culture, right?

And that's the key

Ps Michelle: word is kingdom culture.

I think all of our cultures
have no purpose if you

don't see it within kingdom.

Exactly.

And when you see it in the framework
of like why we have Indian and African

and, um, you know, Greenlandian and
what have all these different, this

different cultures, it's like, it's.

Facets of who god is
it's like there's beauty.

I I mean I grew up all over
the world and every culture Has

such redeeming things about it.

Every culture has such Things
that need to go about it, right?

And when we get confused as we try and
accept all things about this culture And

I want to i'm just gonna stick and if
you're in my culture And if you're not my

culture, it's like you've lost the plot
It's like now what about my culture shows

this facet about god that I need to bring
to the table I need to show that I need

to use that to redeem this world That's

Vance: actually such a good
point because here's like a news

flash I'm telling you right now.

White culture, black culture,
Asian culture, you know,

Indian culture, whatever.

All of those cultures, I'm telling
you right now, are not perfect.

They have so many flaws.

There are some beautiful things
about each of those cultures, but

there are probably more flaws.

The only perfect culture
is kingdom culture.

So if you look at it from that lens,
it's like common sense at that point.

It's like, don't be so rooted
in like, Oh, this is who I am.

No, you don't know all of it
because I've seen your family,

but I've also seen my family.

And we're a little bit jacked up.

You know what I mean?

We need some kingdom culture.

Um, I, I, I honor like some
beautiful parts of it and we still

practice, but the beautiful parts

Ps Michelle: of it.

It's only beautiful because
it's kingdom culture.

It's only because you think
about all those things.

Like if you think about
like Asian community, right.

That concept of like honoring
the elders or that's all like,

it's all kingdom culture.

We didn't make it up.

We didn't make it up.

And we take credit.

Totally God.

Yeah.

And we blame him for things
that are totally awesome.

I don't want to go.

No, that's you.

That's not it's only beautiful
because it's kingdom.

Arun: Yeah, that's really good.

That's really good before we get off this
entire kind of California fire topic You

touch on it a little bit with what Hope
Hanger is doing But I wanted to make

sure you could like let the people know
what are you guys doing specifically?

For the fires in California and
how can people get involved?

Ps Michelle: Oh, absolutely.

That's actually like It's
literally real time going on.

So we did an initial drop.

What was that last week
with LA dream center?

Um, we've got contacts that we're
working with just to see, cause our

whole thing is how can we be the
most effective in what we're doing?

I think there's always going to
be an initial rush of support.

And like, there's so many, and if you're
looking for practical ways, I would

say, look, um, go to LA dream center.

There's ways you can.

Donate right now funds are
probably really needed.

Um, go fund me I believe has there are
different lists you can find where you

can look at specific families vet them
for yourself and donate to them that way

Um, but we will be as we find ways to give
will definitely be updates to follow us on

instagram Probably the most real time way.

We're doing a website revamp.

Currently.

Um, we're revamping as we're doing
a lot of things So instagram is

probably the most current way to just
track if you're looking for ways to

involve dm us and we can And what we
want to do is also be just a resource

hub of what we know, like, Oh, this
organization is doing incredible things.

And there's, I know a lot of like
Y centers, for example, but like

the Y center in Palisades burnt
down, which was a huge resource.

And so the other Y centers
are being relieved there.

So your local Y center might actually,
YMCA, by the way, if you don't know

what Y center is, but they might
have ways that you can actually be a

benefit to them and their community.

So, um, yeah, we DM us, reach
out to us if you're looking for

ways to get involved, but more.

Importantly, if you're, if you're just
looking for ways to, like, sometimes

we're just drawn to the most crisis
moment and then we go, like, if anything,

just take an action today to make your
neighborhood, yeah, own your neighborhood,

own your neighborhood to like love on LA.

And I think we should, but it should
be both and do something like, um.

Visit your public library
and just see what resources

like do it before the crisis.

Can I do it before the crisis?

You have

Vance: to go to your public library.

Public libraries discovered how much
of a hack I got my library card.

Oh my goodness.

So audio books

Ps Michelle: are there.

Resources are there.

Free

Vance: 99.

Dude, it's really, I don't know.

I don't know if it's better.

It's just different.

So, so it's like, okay, number one, the
environment, especially if you kind of

have a good library in your neighborhood
and there's many good libraries out

there, um, the environment is just
like conducive for like, man, I should

probably read, you know what I mean?

Um, and, uh, when you're, when you have
your library card, I have my library card,

it's like my favorite card right now.

He's so proud.

In my library, I can, I can
check up to a hundred books.

I'm not going to do that.

But, but now my kids just have
such an appetite for checking out

books, reading it so they can get
new books and things like that.

So we're building a new culture
in our home kind of through it.

So they literally go to
the library every day now.

Um, it's really, really cool.

And then.

In addition to that, I mean, I
don't know if you have not gone

to your local library lately.

It's gone tech people Okay, it has
so so you have your library card

number and it gets you access to these
specific educational apps So there's

yeah, there's thing called canopy.

It's pretty much like edutainment.

It's like Netflix but for more
educational content instead of just

like You know, going down the rabbit
hole of just a bunch of junk, um, and

dopamine hits and things like that.

And then you get free, uh,
magazine, um, subscriptions.

So literally like business week,
Forbes, you know, all that type

of stuff, all free with a library
card, the value educate yourself.

Salespeople, there are three ways,

Ps Michelle: definitely internet.

You can definitely do that.

But I think there is something
about physically going out to your

local community, physically go
meet your librarians, talk, meet

your people in your community at

Vance: our library.

So sweet.

She told me about, um, cause
I have three daughters.

She told me about this, uh, program that
they have in person, uh, called girls,

Vivian Vivian, all my girls who code.

Young girls had a coat
in the library free.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Free.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm like, oh, okay.

I get the tax system.

I get it At least for this.

Yeah, I'm like, I appreciate it

Arun: That's really cool wait, but
I want to be remiss if I didn't ask

overflow also doing anything Yeah, follow

Vance: our Instagram just like yeah,
you know Michelle said we Alongside

organizations like LA dream center.

Uh, we have different customers,
uh, Zoe church, um, mosaic.

Uh, we also have convoy of hope as well.

I mean, it's so cool.

There's unity in the kingdom right now.

Um, and a lot of those organizations
are leveraging our software to.

Raise funds, not even just ACH debit
credit, but stock and crypto people are

being generous in all different ways.

And so we are reposting all those
different initiatives, um, so you can see

where you might be able to contribute.

Uh, but I highly recommend, um,
yeah, getting involved, uh, if that

resonates with you and if you feel
called to, but also I, I would just

like double down on what Michelle
was saying, this should be a wake up

call to all of us get engaged in your
neighborhood, like love your neighborhood.

I mean, he's literally like.

In the Bible, love your
neighbor and your neighborhood.

Um, and I think from that place, like
strong families and strong neighborhoods,

that's what changes a nation.

That's, what's going to change the world.

Yeah.

Ps Michelle: Like you may not be able
to change everything, but you can

change your, you can change your world.

You can't check maybe not the
world, but your world, your world,

you can create a little haven.

I really believe we're going to see
pockets of like, of like literally

heavens, righteous neighborhoods.

You walk into them and
you're like, man, this is it.

Things are functioning.

Well, even in the midst of
the most corrupt, whatever.

Yep, because those neighbors
said, you know what?

Stand for righteousness.

We're gonna yeah, and so it's you
know, I I prayed and we got the best

neighbors and my best friends moved in
I'm like, why don't I go pray around?

I want the best neighbors.

I want to I want ownership I want
people that love this beautiful.

We live in East Palo Alto and it's like
we've seen that we sold the literally the

murder It was once the murder capital.

I know In the 90s and that's and then when
we moved in people keep reminding us, you

know That was the motocropper and I was
like and I came because I moved here from

south side Chicago and I remember one
time I drove through and i'm like Those

look like regular homes to me, like, I've
been to the, and so, um, so, but, but even

now to like, you know, last year having,
um, oh, the year before that having

zero homicides and last year, I think it
was like less than a handful, like, you

know, like, and you know, not one should
happen, but from what changed, right?

Like, and there's so
many different things.

You had churches rising up, owning
blocks, you had prayer blocks.

It was like a, a group team
effort of every state, the school

system, I'm on the board for
Ravenwood's Education Foundation.

beautiful to see what we're doing to
help with the school systems and meeting

kids where they're at and like our homes.

Like, so I've seen it, what happens when
you do commit and you have a group of

people that are like, you know what,
we want our city to actually look

like heaven on earth and we're going
to do the work it takes to do that.

Arun: That's amazing.

And it's been a great episode.

And if you're out there and you've been
listening to this and you're inspired

with that, it starts with you guys.

It starts with you.

You got to get out there, um,
make the change you want to see.

So, um, please, uh, subscribe.

Like, comment, share, um,
and we'll see you next week.

Cheers guys.

Awesome.