Tech Executive to Ministry with Erik Fortin
Arun Koshy: What's up everybody?
What's up innovators?
Kingdom Builders.
Welcome to the Hype Pod.
This is episode 53.
Wow.
We've had a little bit of a break, but
we're back in between, but we're back
and I'm excited back and better, I think.
Yeah.
You think so?
Yeah, I think so.
I think so.
I think sometimes you need a
little bit of time to get away.
Little break Keeps you recharge.
Yeah.
Gives you
Adam Smallcombe: fresh vision.
Gives you fresh energy,
Arun Koshy: and you just know what
you're missing when you're away.
You know, I missed you
guys so that I missed you.
Um, but let me do a little quick intro.
So if you haven't listened to the
podcast for the, and this is your first
time, um, this is usually where we talk
about that intersection between faith.
Tech, business culture.
Um, and on the podcast we have the
usual Hello, pastor, Adam Mcom.
I'm here, still here, um, the
global lead pastor of I Church.
Oh, that sounds serious.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sounds heavy.
And then we got myself, Arun,
your host, and we have a special
guest today, Eric Forton.
Adam Smallcombe: Eric
Forton, the COO of Vibe.
Of Vibe Church.
Church.
Glad to be here guys.
What a treat.
Newly,
Arun Koshy: newly, newly appointed.
Newly appointed.
Newly recruited.
Yeah.
Adam Smallcombe: But
already changing the game.
Arun Koshy: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Adam Smallcombe: I would
call him an impact player.
Oh, wow.
You know, when you bring
someone out the bench Yeah.
Outta volunteering and actually say,
Hey, we're gonna give you salary.
Can you produce things?
And right off the bench impact.
Awesome.
And we're
Arun Koshy: gonna,
we're gonna get into it.
I mean, that's a really big, uh, intro.
Appreciate that.
Yeah.
But before we go into
your background mm-hmm.
We haven't just been away.
You've been doing KIN Dubai
with the HYPE Network.
That's right.
Can you just give us a recap because we
haven't had an episode since, man, there's
Adam Smallcombe: been so
much that's been going on.
Yeah, we've been busy.
It's not, uh, yeah.
Let me just let everyone know we
haven't just been vacationing.
Exactly.
Yeah.
We've been relaxing just
twiddling our thumbs.
We've been building, been building mode.
Uh, I was.
Definitely, uh, in Hype Dubai.
What a great event that was.
Mm-hmm.
Um, shout out to Pastor Ben.
He pulled off an amazing event, worked
with Pastor Alessandro and Izzy there.
We made some great connections,
accelerated the team.
And, uh, we've now got
ambassadors in hype.
We've got a representation of hype,
uh, network out there in Dubai.
And, uh, I think you were in
Dubai just the week after.
The week
Arun Koshy: after for crypto
conference for Crypto Con.
Yeah.
And
Adam Smallcombe: uh, man,
what a great city, huh?
Yeah.
That was your first time?
That was my first time.
What was your impressions?
Arun Koshy: Um, extremely hot.
But if you're indoors, it's probably
one of the best places to be When you're
indoor, there's no need to go outdoors.
There's no need to go because it
really is no need to go outdoors.
You got the mall.
It's
Adam Smallcombe: massive, huge.
You skydived?
Arun Koshy: Yes.
I sky.
So funniest story.
I gotta say this.
You gotta tell us.
Um, it was a episode or two
before I left for Dubai.
We talked about skydiving
and going through it.
I hadn't told my mom yet.
She listens to the podcast,
then she calls me later and then
she's freaking out about me.
Oh yeah.
She didn't want you to Yeah.
Does not want me to do skydiving.
And I was gonna tell her, you know,
eventually after I landed safely,
by the way, by
Arun Koshy: the way, I just skydiving.
Um, but then she finds out and
then she goes through this whole
thing about not wanting to do it.
I already booked the tickets,
so I was like, the most
Adam Smallcombe: impressive thing is
that your mom listens to this podcast.
Yeah.
Impressive.
That was the most, that
was the story actually.
Arun Koshy: So good.
Hey mom, but just so you know, don't
reveal anything on the podcast.
Yeah, exactly.
People might be listening, your mom.
Mom might.
Your mom might.
Yeah.
But it was fun.
Probably one of the most.
Exhilarating experiences in my life.
Yes.
Just seeing the Palm Islands.
Probably the coolest thing about
that place is everything's manmade.
Oh, it's crazy.
They make an entire Palm Island.
They're, yes.
Did you see the World Islands?
Yeah.
It's
Adam Smallcombe: hard to
wrap your mind around.
It really is.
Yeah.
Like just the development.
You go up, uh, into the Birch Khalifa and
you get to see the before and after this.
Beautiful.
Um, I guess it's a telescope.
Mm-hmm.
That you can switch modes and you can
switch it to what it looked like before.
Wow.
Oh, cool.
And it switches to what it is now.
Mm-hmm.
And so everywhere you look, you
can see when it was just desert.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then now like this huge city.
It's just fascinating.
Arun Koshy: Yeah.
It really, really is.
I mean the, I mean, we're gonna
talk about operations and all that
kind of stuff on this podcast, but.
The scale at which, and the
speed at which they can build.
Yes.
You know, whatever you have to
say about that, it's, it really
is remarkable what they do.
Yeah.
But yeah, tell us more
about Dubai and, yeah.
Dubai's good icon.
Adam Smallcombe: I mean, we've, uh,
had, uh, the hype con there and I
mean, what I'm actually actually
excited about is Hype Con that's
coming up in a couple of weeks.
Oh, we'll talk about it Valley.
Mm-hmm.
So.
Amen.
Conference.
We are at the time of this
recording, 21 days away.
Wow.
Three weeks out from our annual Amen.
West Coast Revival Conference.
Probably one of my favorite things we do.
Mm-hmm.
I'd
Adam Smallcombe: probably say the
favorite thing for me that we get to do,
the whole global family comes together.
We paired it over the last couple years
with Hype Khan during the day, and
we've got some cool stuff going on.
Yeah.
Uh, I don't wanna reveal too much mm-hmm.
But we're building a
whole hype house again.
Mm-hmm.
It's gonna be just an innovation,
entrepreneurial, uh, cross
section of faith and leaders and.
I would just say, if you're
hearing this, get out.
Yeah.
Just come out to the Silicon Valley,
uh, meet some of the cool people.
Get him meet Aroon, he'll be there.
Mm-hmm.
Arun Koshy: Yep.
Adam Smallcombe: And, uh, yeah, I
think it's just gonna be a fun time.
Arun Koshy: Yeah.
And just a reminder, you don't, I mean,
it's encouraged to be a hype member,
but you don't have to be the come hype.
No.
You don't have to be a hype member.
Yeah.
Why
Adam Smallcombe: would you not wanna be?
But, uh, we are just gonna take
everybody who has innovation flow
thrown Flow through the veins.
Arun Koshy: Yeah, exactly.
But come out and maybe
you'll get the itch for why.
Yes.
You wanna be a hype member.
Yes.
And speaking of that, yes.
We've actually had a conversation
about your past and how you, you
know, joined to become the CEO of vi.
Mm-hmm.
But maybe you can give a little
background to the, the high pod audience.
Yeah.
Let us get
Adam Smallcombe: to know Eric.
Arun Koshy: Yeah, sure.
About how you got here.
Erik Fortin: Yeah.
Well, uh, just first off, just
wanna say thank you for the
opportunity to be on here.
Um, having been on the other side
and listening to, and enjoying
these podcasts, my wife, Sarah.
Is a huge fan.
So literally she got me onto,
we're a huge fan of Sam.
Yeah.
Fair's the best, honestly.
But, uh, she, you know, she got me
onto it and you know, we've been
listening together on long drives and,
um, yeah, to be on the other side of
this, it almost feels surreal now.
So super excited to be here
and, uh, hopefully I'll
contribute to a good one here.
But yeah, my background, um, you
know, it's crazy 'cause uh, grew
up in the Bay area, one of the few
people who was born and raised here.
Yes.
Very rare.
Yeah, I know.
Super rare we're like unicorns.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It's great.
Not, not, not like, you know, the good
like, you know, exit type unicorns
we're more like dinosaurs, but, you
know, I really think that, uh, it
was an awesome place to grow up.
Yeah.
I mean, I always try to tell
people like, Hey, the stories
I could tell you of what this.
Place used to look like
when it was cherry orchards.
Right.
And just fruit orchards very similar
Adam Smallcombe: to Dubai.
Yeah.
Erik Fortin: Yeah.
Speaking of manmade, I heard that
they, they actually make weather there.
They're able to do
something with the weather.
Oh, cloud seating.
Cloud seating.
Yeah.
They do that.
That's, I saw they creating an
Arun Koshy: entire forest to lower
the temperature That's right.
Of Dubai.
Which is, it's just vision.
It's crazy.
Yeah, it is.
It's amazing.
Yeah.
Erik Fortin: We'll do that here someday.
Yeah.
We'll cloud seed over leghorn
here, but, um, but yeah, no.
So, uh, born and raised in the Bay Area.
Uh, after college I went to.
Study business.
And I thought I was actually gonna go
follow my dad's footsteps pretty much
because I had no idea what I was gonna do.
Right?
So I said, oh, I could go be a
police officer like my dad, right?
Um, and, um, you know, made the decision.
I actually still had the papers
in my closet from when I got
into the process to join.
Wow.
It's like, congratulations Mr.
Ford.
I'm getting to the next step of the public
safety officer and training process.
Uh, and then right as I got
there, my mom sits me down.
She says, Eric.
First person to graduate
with a degree in the family.
Uh, try something else before and if
it doesn't work out, then you could
go be a cop all you want, way to
go and, you know, hold guns and you
know, pepper spray and all that stuff.
Yeah.
So, um, anyway, sat down, uh,
started applying to tech jobs.
And would've never guessed that my first
real tech job outta school would've
been at this little company in 2007
that had about, I think 10 to 15 million
users at the time called Facebook.
Oh, wow.
Um, so started my career there.
Um, at the time, you know,
we, we knew, we used 2000
Adam Smallcombe: sevens early.
Yeah.
Erik Fortin: That was early.
I think I, I was telling Arun
this earlier, but um, I think, I
don't know the exact, but I think
I was around employee number 180.
Over there.
So Cool.
It was, um, we were literally
in just a couple small
buildings in downtown Palo Alto.
That's amazing.
Uh, university Avenue and then
Hamilton one over was my building.
Mm-hmm.
But, um, yeah, started my career there.
Had some, uh, good years on
their, um, they called it the
customer support team back then.
Okay.
And this is back when people would
reach out to us saying, Hey, can
you reset my password please?
And it was like, wow, that's incredible.
And then, you know, by, uh, I'd say, what.
Couple years in, they decided we,
they wanted to go open up a, uh,
remote operations office, so people
working on online operations,
supporting users, supporting
advertisers, advertisers, developers.
And they said pretty much, Hey, we
want to build a presence in Austin.
So I said, oh, that sounds like fun.
Lemme go to some place, uh,
that I've never been to.
Also scorching hot there, although I
don't know if it's Dubai level here.
It's pretty hot.
Yeah, it's nasty.
Um, oh yeah.
It's like living in a dog's mouth.
It smells, it's like super humid.
But yeah.
So.
Yeah, but the food's really good.
Yeah, the food's good, but,
um, but no, they said, uh, you
know, we're gonna open this up.
And, uh, you know, God in, in his
strange sense of humor, said, Hey,
you know, go ahead and go to Austin.
So I got selected to go
build the office there.
Wow.
I've been
Adam Smallcombe: to that office.
Erik Fortin: Oh, have you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
The Facebook
Adam Smallcombe: office downtown.
Yeah, we did
Erik Fortin: that in 2010.
So what you saw was probably a
lot different, or a lot different
than what it was back then.
Yeah.
I cant
Adam Smallcombe: remember what
floor I was in, but it was
high security getting in there.
Oh yeah, definitely.
You gotta do like a, you know,
fingerprint blood sample.
Exactly.
Like everything.
Yeah.
That's great.
Exactly.
You have to do that saliva.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, that's great.
Erik Fortin: But, um, but yeah, we
started, uh, six people in that office.
Wow.
We started as a landing team of
six, and by the time we left, or
by the time I left, about three
years almost after starting.
Yep.
Uh, we were at, uh, I think 200 people.
Wow.
And now I've heard that
at least pre pandemic.
I think they're about a thousand
now, which is, uh, kind of crazy.
Somewhere around there.
And they have multiple campuses,
so we were just one part of a.
Floor.
Yeah.
And then we went to two floors, then
three floors, and then I think they took
over that building, the whole building.
Yeah.
And then I think they got another
campus up north near the domain.
So yeah.
Amazing to just see the growth there.
Yes.
But, um, yeah, I think at that point
really just fell in love with the
notion of, um, really helping people
get to their aha moment, right?
Mm-hmm.
Whether it's helping customers, whether
it's helping people that, like, you
know, I met at a, um, at a job fair.
You know, we're just getting
outta college and saying, oh, I
really want to come work here.
Um, and seeing them get to go on
and just have amazing careers.
So really that just
became a passion of mine.
What was
Adam Smallcombe: the
environment like back then?
You know, I think Facebook right
now, or meta is so corporate.
Erik Fortin: Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Adam Smallcombe: Uh, and
but back then, was it like.
Running and gunning.
Was it cowboy-ish?
Was it kind of like
startup mentality still?
Erik Fortin: Yeah, I would say it was.
I think that the one thing I always
tell people is we had a lot of fun.
Yeah.
Um, it was a lot of fun.
This is before it was obviously
so still had the college vibe.
Yeah.
It well, yeah.
College vibe.
A lot of people coming
outta Stanford University.
Yeah.
Since they were right up the street.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, I think the cool part
was, is there was a certain
degree of humility that was there.
Um, we knew that we were
working on something that
become, that could become huge.
Yep.
But we also knew that, hey.
We could also really mess this up, right?
Mm-hmm.
So we're gonna bring everything we can.
We're not gonna, um, we're not
gonna undermine like the level of
what we have here and, uh, we're
just gonna do everything we can to
have fun, but make a really good
product that a lot of people can use.
So, yeah.
Yeah, that was a lot of fun.
That's
Adam Smallcombe: so cool.
Erik Fortin: Yeah.
So, yeah.
Um, after Facebook kind of just got on
that journey, I had a director there.
She would always say, Hey, you know, um,
what is that 10% of your day in interview?
She would say, tell me about the 10% of
your day where you're just in the zone.
What are you doing and why?
What it brings you into the zone.
They're like, where are
you just operating at 110%.
Mm-hmm.
And I kind of took that and said, okay,
well if that's something that I'm always
striving for, then how do I make that
10% of my day a greater part of my day?
Mm-hmm.
How do I make that 20% of
my day, very 30% of my day?
And that really kicked off this career
journey of like, okay, any opportunity I.
Find, I want to find the
opportunity to grow people.
Mm-hmm.
And to manage a team potentially someday.
And do what I did in Austin.
Um, so I went to Square,
square, was building out their
support team at the time.
Um, just really got to work with
them, helped them build out some
of their practices for scaling.
Specifically, I think it was around
like quality, uh, recruiting,
finding new people from the team.
Is this still in Austin?
Uh, no.
I actually flew back to San Francisco.
Great call.
Yeah.
So I went back to San Francisco.
Started working there.
Um, yeah, it was Rocket ride
from the minute I got there.
Yeah.
Um, it was amazing.
It was interesting going from, uh, what
was it like Facebook with social media
all the way into like, you know, FinTech.
Right.
Um, and at the time Square was literally
just an app on a phone and a card reader.
That's right.
And that's all it was.
It's like a full suite.
Oh yeah.
I mean, it was.
It was cool too because it was,
we went from working with users
to working with, uh, merchants.
Yeah.
So people who were using Square to
literally build their business and,
uh, support their livelihood, right?
Mm-hmm.
Small businesses.
And what was this?
2012?
2012?
Yeah.
So 2012 to about 2014 I worked there.
Yes.
And it's funny because about.
And I'd say six months into my time there,
they, uh, found out what I did in Austin.
They said, um, Hey, we wanna
send somebody to Atlanta.
What should we look for?
Like asking me like, Hey, like, okay,
like, you know, if we were to find
somebody, what should we look for?
Yeah.
And I was like, oh yeah,
this, this and this.
I'm like, are you guys punking me now?
Like, are you asking me?
So literally like, yeah, like,
you know, so interview with them.
Um, had one of the shortest
interviews, uh, with somebody.
It was crazy.
He literally said, okay,
why are you excited to go?
What are you gonna bring
that nobody else will?
Yeah.
Any questions?
And it was a high ranking person at the
company, so I was literally like scared.
I was like, okay.
Like this crazy, you know, sweaty palms.
Uh, but yeah, that was one of the
craziest interviews I ever had.
So literally six months after, your
answers must have been really good.
Yeah.
You're kind of bearing the lead here,
but you must had some good answers.
Well, that's been like the other part.
So in Austin and in multiple
jobs, one of my favorite part
was also doing the recruiting.
Mm.
Yeah.
So we went to Austin.
That's where I really honed
the skills about interviewing.
It was like.
You know, I think eight hours of
my day, for the first six months,
were just interviewing like 40
hours a week of straight interviews.
Yeah.
Going to colleges, talking in front
of groups, being like, this is cool.
Come join us.
Yeah.
But then it was also different, right?
You didn't have all these other tech
companies when it first started,
and it wasn't like, you know,
everybody vying for the same talent.
Right?
Erik Fortin: But, um, but
yeah, so anyway, so square.
Do that interview literally was
only in San Francisco for six months
before they shipped me out to Atlanta.
Right.
Um, went out to Atlanta, built a team,
albeit a bit smaller of a team, and
then, uh, was there for a while and
then they split that team in between
New York, uh, and San Francisco.
And then I went to, uh, actually,
oh gosh, where was that Dropbox?
I went to Dropbox after that in about 20.
13, 20 14.
And, um, I had a mentor who
said, you really seem to love
the people aspect of this.
So I said, great.
Yeah, I love it.
And he said, why don't you
go try doing hr, right?
So I said, all right, let's try it.
So, um, started off as a coordinator.
Yep.
Uh, doing things like global
mobility, shipping people around
the world to, you know, open
new offices, do what I had done.
Yep.
Um, and then I took over, um,
contingent workforce, working on that.
A bunch of boring stuff, essentially
just signing papers, making sure
they get computers, but really
cool people you get to work with.
And then about six months
into that, they say, Hey.
We're having a really hard time
finding HR business partners.
And if you don't know an HR business
partner, that's pretty much like the,
I would say like one of the biggest
roles within the HR organization.
Good.
They're the people who partner with
the different teams in a company.
So, um, you know, maybe at Facebook
or others you might have an HR
business partner that sits alongside,
you know, go to market, right.
Sales, marketing, that type of stuff.
Mm-hmm.
So, um, yeah, they said, would
you like to be an H hr bp?
And I'm looking at the job description.
It says, okay, HRBP, you need about
eight years of experience to do this job.
Mm-hmm.
And I said.
Are you guys sure you know what?
You know what you're doing, right?
Like, oh yeah, that's fine.
Come to find out their hiring bar.
And this is not a flex, but their
hiring bar was so high that they
couldn't get anybody through the gate.
So it just became like an
all hands on deck emergency.
Mm-hmm.
Erik Fortin: So I'm thinking, okay, HRBP,
you're probably gonna gimme one team.
Get my training wheels on.
This is gonna be great.
It's gonna be fine.
It's not gonna be that crazy.
Yeah.
They said, no, we're gonna give you
GNA, which is general administrative.
Wow.
Which essentially was.
Any team that wasn't engineering product
design or I think, what was the other one?
EPD?
Yeah.
It was pretty much any team that was
not engineering product and design.
Mm-hmm.
So, um, probably like 400 people Wow.
At the organization at that time.
So it was literally just
like you're in the deep end.
Oh yeah.
Way in the deep end, like, you know,
literally water was up to my chin.
So, but, uh, it was a great
experience, you know, I think.
There are jobs that I really
associate with getting experience
that I think has really helped
me even further into my career.
And I think for whatever reason, um,
supporting the internal employees versus
supporting the external customers.
Yeah.
It's almost like a whole new skillset set.
Right, because you're literally
learning how to set expectations.
Yes.
You're learning how to like really
work with the system who's hotter.
Exactly.
Wait, who's hot?
Hotter?
Is it hotter?
Oh, harder.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's, they speak Australian.
Yeah.
I don't Who's harder to work with?
Adam Smallcombe: The
customer or the employees?
I think it
Erik Fortin: all depends, you
know, customers is kind of like a
short burst, like, you know, you're
literally just maybe having 1, 2,
3 interactions with the customer.
Yeah.
But with hr, it's like literally
they sit next to you and they're
like, Hey, like, oh, we're about to
come into our performance season.
I know this is a max for salary increase,
but I think it should actually be this.
Right.
Why won't you entertain it?
It's like, okay, cool.
And then, you know, a lot of it was.
Kind of the other side of it, you're
doing investigations or like, you know,
somebody thinks like, Hey, I have, we
have to part ways with this person.
Uh, it's like really making sure that
we're doing everything correct, right?
Mm-hmm.
We're really, um, even in situations
where their termination might
happen, um, you're, you're doing
your due diligence of giving a good
experience even in that, right?
Yeah.
You know,
Adam Smallcombe: what is your.
Church experience.
Yeah.
Through all of
Erik Fortin: these
Adam Smallcombe: seasons.
Erik Fortin: So the incredible part
is, is, um, you know, I, I, uh, I
grew up going to Christian schools.
Yep.
Um, elementary, all the
way through high school.
Yep.
Uh, shout out King's Academy.
Wow.
But, uh, down the road.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Two thou classic.
Two, no.
Local.
Local.
Oh yeah.
Like I said, yeah.
We're unicorns.
But, uh, but no.
So, uh, went to Christian schools,
uh, accepted Christ when I
was, uh, gosh, when was that?
I went to Hume Lake in 1997.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, accepted Christ
there, but, um, really?
Oh, that's a hot bid for
salvation, that place.
Oh, oh, yeah.
And they, they do a good job.
They know what they're doing.
Yeah.
So, uh, accepted Christ.
But I never really went to church.
Never really went to church.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, regularly.
Yeah.
Um, it wasn't until I actually, so you
were saved, but not yet a Christian.
Got it.
Yes.
Yeah.
Not walking with the Lord.
Yes.
Um, and, um, I knew Jesus,
but I wasn't walking with him.
Yeah.
Um, but, uh, so anyway, end
up, uh, going to Austin.
Yeah.
And incidentally enough, um, in Austin,
even though, I mean, quite frankly,
I was not living the Godly lifestyle.
Um, I also said, you know.
You're in a new place.
Mm-hmm.
Um, maybe it's time to try
to start some new habits.
Mm.
And one of those habits was, was
actually, hey, let's try going to
church and seeing what's out there.
Wow.
Found a church in Austin.
And one thing I loved about
it was the pastor there, he
was this Southern Baptist guy.
Mm-hmm.
Talked about football, barbecue,
but he was extremely gregarious.
Like he was really just like, you know,
he knew how to connect with people.
Mm-hmm.
He was very just, um, charismatic.
Yeah.
Which I had never experienced.
Like I had gone to like
church things here and there.
Sure.
Yeah.
But really that attracted me and
that really just kind of kept
bringing me in and, you know,
the war, what was that church?
Can you remember the name?
Uh, it was called Lake Hills Church.
Big shout out to Lake Hills.
Lake Hills Church.
Pastor Mac Rashard.
I still catch this every once in a while.
That's so, yeah, pastor Mack,
they're still, they're still
doing it since nine seven.
Big.
Yeah.
But, um, but yeah, that was where I
first started going to church when
I, uh, came back to the Bay Area
after coming from Atlanta, um, a
friend introduced me to a church out
there in San Jose called Awakening.
Started going to that church and um,
yeah, started going regularly and
that's where I really started serving.
So I said, okay, I want to, you
know, have a bigger part of this.
God, show me what that is.
Now.
The, I think
Adam Smallcombe: that was a.
At one point, like a young
adult's ministry that.
Merged into a church, is that correct?
Erik Fortin: Yes, that's what it was.
Yeah.
I think they were part of, I,
I think it was part of Venture.
I think they were the
Youth Wing Adventure.
'cause uh, I think so Pastor
Ryan Ingram is the pastor there.
That's, and his dad is Pastor Chip Ingram.
Yes.
Uh, he's like living on the Edge
ministries and doing that type of stuff.
That's right.
Stuff that's right.
But yes.
Yeah.
So great church.
Yeah.
Again, you know, the pastor was, uh,
you know, pretty not as charismatic,
but you know, he definitely had
talked about a lot of the issues
that I was facing as a mm-hmm.
You know, young, uh, well, there was
nothing young about it at that time.
But, uh, but no, he, uh,
you know, really good.
And then.
Uh, for whatever reason I was living in
San Jose at the time, uh, kind of put
the proverbial cart before the horse
bought my first house in San Jose.
Mm-hmm.
Which I sold, come on,
like light, like an idiot.
Uh, but, um, but, uh, sold that.
And, uh, the reason I sold it was because
I was like, okay, I'm a single guy.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And I literally see just like
baby strollers outside of my
window and Willow Glen, like.
All the time, right?
Yeah.
So I'm like, I need to get outta here.
I need to break out.
Like, this is wild.
So I ended up moving
to Oakland, California.
Yep.
Nice.
Now in Oakland, uh, which
I fell in love with.
I was like, I don't know if I could
ever love another city like Austin.
Wow.
But I
Erik Fortin: fell in love
with Oakland, California.
It was one, the one part of the bay up
until that time, I had not lived in.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Erik Fortin: And, uh,
you know, move in there.
And I was still going
to church in San Jose.
Yep.
And, uh, part of my testimony is, is
there was a, an event that happened
in my life where God really said, Hey.
Um, you know, you could go this way
or this way, but if you decide to
follow me, there's some things that you
need to change that are really gonna
bring you into what I have for you.
Um, and one part of that was community.
So he said, okay, you're living in
Oakland, but you're driving down on Sunday
to go to church and you're not seeing
these people for any part of the week.
Mm-hmm.
Um, wow.
And then literally as soon as I made
that decision and had that prayer,
um, I was on Facebook and a friend
of mine's a photographer and, uh,
he took a picture, I think it was
the interest night for Vibe Oakland.
Oh, wow.
And he said, uh, he, he
just posted one picture.
And he said, Oakland, you're amazing.
And I said, oh yeah,
like, where is this aj?
His name is AJ Fay.
Yeah.
Erik Fortin: Um, and he said, uh, yeah.
I said, where is this?
And he said, oh, it's this new church
that's opening up, uh, in Oakland.
It's called vi.
Mm-hmm.
Erik Fortin: So I go to the website,
get on the website, you know, looking
it up, it says, coming soon Oakland.
And I was like, oh, okay, maybe
they're about to start up.
Um, so I reached out to the email.
And someone reached back out to me, pastor
Brittany Groman, she reached out to me.
She said like, oh yeah, like
we're doing a soft opening.
Showed up.
And literally like that
was how I got to vibe.
I know that's not when you asked, but
that's kind of like the church story.
Cool.
I feel
Arun Koshy: like that's
kind of where we're going.
'cause you went from there,
your first instance of vibe
and then you wanted to become.
You wanted this job as the CO Yeah.
Like it was a dream job you were saying.
Yeah.
Tell us a little bit more of how you got
from just showing up at Interest Night
to now being the CO of Live church.
Erik Fortin: I mean,
that's
Erik Fortin: a great question.
That's crazy.
How much time do we got?
No, I'm just kidding.
Uh, no, I mean, it, it, it's interesting
because, you know, when I think of
this church and, you know, I, I, I
told Pastor Andrew in my interview,
I said, this is my dream shot.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Um, and you know, it's like you
could look at my, my resume.
God's blessed me with a lot of
opportunities working for these companies.
Mm-hmm.
You know, Facebook Square,
Dropbox, Uber, Visco ramp, um, and.
And oh, oh.
Okay.
No, keep going.
Yeah, keep going.
Yeah.
Yep.
So had the opportunity to, you know,
to really work at all those companies,
but, um, really what I, what I saw
was like, okay, I'm getting the
opportunity to really build all these
skills and, um, I got to a place,
quite frankly, where I was like, okay,
like I feel like I've kind of done.
Most of what I'm gonna do in
the tech space, even though it's
growing, I've built teams of places.
Mm-hmm.
I've seen people go off and like start
companies that have been successful that
I helped bring onto the, and really I
was like, okay, God, what else can I do?
Yeah.
And I actually got to a
season and shout out to Hype.
Um, one experience was, um, I
was out of a job for a little bit
and um, I was starting to feel
quite frankly, just washed up.
You know, I, I was feeling washed up.
I'm like, you know, almost, I think I was
40 at the time, and I'm like, man, no.
That is no disrespect to the 40-year-old,
but in our industry washed up at 40.
But, you know, I, I was kind
of feeling like, man, like I've
been outta work for a while.
Maybe it's just my time to
figure out something else.
But I go to a hype event, I believe
it was Hype Con in either 23 or 24.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
And, um, walking around and I,
they had the tags to say like, you
know, Hey, like, you know, what's
your name and where do you work?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, I just put.
Fun employed.
Nice.
And, uh, somebody saw that and
they, they started talking to me.
He was like, oh, like, well,
what do you normally do?
And I talked to this person, I think
he had just started an AI company.
Okay.
An AI company in the AI space.
Um, and you know, he tells me
just a little bit about his
business, like a little snippet.
And immediately I start talking
to him like, oh, so you must be in
this space and these must be the
competitors in this must be kind of
like your strategic areas, right?
And he just looks at me
in shock and he's like.
How did you know all that?
Mm-hmm.
Right.
I just told you like a little bit and he
said, and he said, you have a gift, Uhhuh.
And I don't, I, I say that because
really it brought me, God used that
event and that person to really kind of
bring me back up and say, you know what?
I actually do have a
lot to offer, I think.
Good.
Yeah.
Erik Fortin: And after that, you
know, I actually ended up getting
the job at ramp, which I was, I
was only at for a short while.
Yep.
But after coming out of ramp.
It was like, okay, you know, God,
um, I'm gonna surrender this to you.
Uh, I feel like I've been, you know,
really trying to search for these
opportunities for company name, um,
or finances, like trying to find a
place that's gonna, you know, really
just have a chance of blowing up.
Mm-hmm.
But, um, I think I need to
focus on the right things.
Yeah.
And God really convicted me, talked with
a few friends and he said, you know,
there's gonna be an opportunity that comes
up that may not be what you're used to.
Right.
Uh, but it is gonna be something
that I am calling you to do.
And, uh, I think you spoke,
um, at the real men's ranch.
Now you said you're gonna
have to make a decision.
Uh, that's gonna require a lot of faith.
Wow.
So then Pastor Andrew just outta
nowhere, reaches out to me, says
like, Hey, I want to, you know,
uh, can you talk to us a little bit
about ops, like, we're expanding and
would you just tell us a little bit
about what you know, like Absolutely.
Like, would love to help
the church in any way I can.
So.
After that, he says, Hey,
we're hiring for a COO role.
Mm-hmm.
Erik Fortin: And, uh, he said, do you
want to, you know, do you wanna come talk?
I'm like, yep, a hundred percent.
Roger that.
Like, let's go, let's go do this.
So, um, went into the interview and,
uh, incidentally enough, probably
one of the longest interviews
I've ever done, uh, we sat down.
Four.
I think that's, that's Indian's voice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We gotta know, you know.
But, uh, but hour and 40 minutes,
and I gotta say I was really, um,
I was, I was admiring just like the
level of intentionality behind the
questions that were drafted up, right?
Mm-hmm.
They really brought out things.
It wasn't just, oh, okay, well
what's your knowledge of this?
It was like, no.
What have you done?
Mm-hmm.
Um, when it comes to this area, or
like, how would you reply to this?
And tell me about, uh, a
specific embodiment that
you've seen in your career.
Hmm.
Um, so that impressed me, but I really
think what put it all together was, um.
I fully believe that all those 18
years, even in the jobs where I was
like, you know, rough or I wasn't
really feeling it, I still learned
skills that I think have been able
to translate and will continue to be
able to translate to this role as COO.
Wow.
Yeah.
Um, and really what I'm
the most excited about is.
Um, I mean obviously the expansion
part is amazing, very fun.
But I think of what this
ministry has been to my own life.
Mm.
Um, this ministry has been so impactful,
not just to my life, but my wife's life.
And obviously we have our son and
it's even, you know, like one week of
him being in royal kids during church
planning school, his teachers at preschool
were already like, oh my goodness.
Like he's talking differently.
Yeah.
He's like, you know,
much more intelligent.
But anyway, I say that to say when
the opportunity presented itself, the
reason this is a dream shot is because.
I get to bring that experience
that God has blessed me with and
actually come help build the kingdom.
Mm-hmm.
So good.
Um, and quite frankly, I mean, like.
One month in it's, it's everything I
expected it to be and more so, you know,
really just excited and appreciate you
for the nod to bring me on the journey.
So story, I mean, Eric killing the game.
A what a cool,
Arun Koshy: lemme tell you two thing.
First off, connecting the dot from
the men's ranch night to that moment.
What a powerful moment.
Yeah.
I didn't even know this part of it.
And then to hear that, that
transl translated, I didn't
even connect that part
Adam Smallcombe: of it because
at the ranch night, that was
like a couple months ago.
Yeah.
And uh, that was, I forgot
that I'd give you that word.
Yeah.
And at the time we hadn't even
decided that we need to see COO.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
It's, that's crazy.
That is wild.
Okay.
That is wild.
But yeah, I thought is
Arun Koshy: good.
Wait, so, because I wanna, I know we have,
um, a little bit of time left, but Yeah.
This whole podcast was meant to be around
this idea of how do you build a church?
And then when, after we talked, you
know, I, I've kind of been going through
this cold ha incident with my work, like
incident response on, uh, Memorial Day.
Yeah.
I was watching, um, American
Manhunt, the Osama Bin Laden story.
Oh man.
Which by the way, should watch.
Oh, I've caught that on my watch list.
Unbelievable documentary.
Unbelievable documentary.
But it's this whole idea of.
Yes.
What do you do during
an incident response?
And it was, everything I've been
thinking about, like just with my
team at my work was, it's really
what you do before the incident.
It's how you build a team, how you set
it up, the foundation that you provide.
Mm-hmm.
So that when that does come, you'll
be able to handle it with such ease.
Right?
Yeah.
And so.
With what you guys are doing,
and I want to like turn the
question to you, pastor Adam.
Oh, okay.
You've made a big decision here to
do the C-Suite, um, for Vibe Church.
Talk to a little bit more about
that, why you decided to go through
this kind of change where now
you're hiring these roles Yeah.
For Vibe Church.
Adam Smallcombe: Yeah.
I think, you know, uh, I mean I just,
what think what you just said was.
Super brilliant, very insightful.
Like the way that you are prepared
in what you structure, and you
don't always just have to hit a
ceiling before you bring change.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I think that's one way to, uh, implement
change when you hit a ceiling and you're
like, man, we've gotta figure this out.
Mm-hmm.
I think what, uh, for us, I
wouldn't say we've hit a ceiling
at VI Church, but we've, we've
launched a vision that projects
many ceilings that we're gonna hit.
Mm.
And so for me, knowing the capacity
of how we've built the church in
many ways over the last 10 years,
15, uh, 14 years, sorry, in 15
locations, it's really been a, a, a
combination of, uh, holy Spirit led.
But mom and pop style mm-hmm.
Where we're just gonna
send missionaries mm-hmm.
And we're gonna send 'em out there
and, you know, support 'em as best we
can, but kind of say, Hey, good luck.
Yeah.
Uh, but really with a vision that we've
set of a hundred locations, that's gonna
cause us to be our best to actually
implement, uh, intelligent people who know
how to scale, who know how to empower.
Mm-hmm.
And to really, uh, understand
that when you go to that scale.
There's different stakes.
Mm-hmm.
You know, uh, you can't just wing
it and support a couple of campuses.
Right.
If they don't make budget, you've gotta
actually have a system of success.
Mm-hmm.
That, uh, doesn't sink the ship.
And so for us, that really made me
pause and go, what are we gonna build?
Mm-hmm.
How do we build this?
What are the key components that we need?
And it's not just about a bunch of.
Campus pastors, we really need a global
team that actually honors every gift giver
to know that when, 'cause the church is
built through sacrifice and donations.
Yes.
So we wanna know, I want the
church to know that every dollar
is gonna be spent with strategy.
And implementation for Kingdom Impact.
Mm-hmm.
And so that's when we realized, man, we
need to, we need to structure this out.
Yeah.
And, and that will actually bring
support to the expansion mm-hmm.
And to the continued growth of the church.
Arun Koshy: Yeah, I like that.
So one thing that we usually talk about
on the pod is how do you bring Kingdom
Principle principles into your business?
Yeah.
And I think this kind of the reverse,
and you can correct me if I'm wrong.
Yeah.
But it's like how do you bring
business principles into the church?
That's exactly, but, and
then do it in the right way.
Right.
And so I think it's one thing that
kind of scares a lot of people that
are in the church when they see.
The two worlds collide because they
seem like they should be at like,
Adam Smallcombe: I think
it has in the past.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's like, oh, let's keep
spiritual different from business.
Right, right.
But I think what, what maybe mainly
our church here in the Silicon Valley.
Mm-hmm.
Everyone is in both spaces in our church.
Mm-hmm.
And so it's a cohesion of understanding.
You've got people just to give
people context if they don't
know the context of vibe.
We've got technologists, innovators.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
We've got business leaders
and so they live in the world
of global scaling operations.
And then to kind of sit in the
church space and see it run old
school, it's probably frustrating.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, we could, we could
do this, we could do that.
So, you know, really bringing
that mindset in, I think it's
gonna actually scale the church.
Arun Koshy: Oh, I a hundred percent agree.
I think one of the worst
things you can do is.
You have these talents that
you have at the church, but
you're too scared to use it.
Yes.
Because of whatever preconceived
notions that you have about it.
Yeah.
But it's not, that's a tool, right?
Correct.
You use it in the right way.
You can actually achieve Yes.
What you are looking to achieve,
which is growth and like scale, right?
Yeah.
In a really healthy way.
And so now I'll turn it over to you
as now the new C of Vive church.
Like where do you see.
Your role in making sure that
you really do build a healthy
foundation as we That's great.
Erik Fortin: That is a great question.
Um, you know, I think from day one, one of
the things I knew that I needed to do is
just really set us up for growth, right?
So really just set us up for growth
and, um, one of the ways that I did that
is, okay, let's all get us in the same
place when it comes to collaboration.
So, I mean, stuff that might just
seem like common knowledge, like.
Every job in the last 10 years I
went to had Slack set up already.
Mm-hmm.
But I come to vi they have Slack.
But the question is, is are they
actually leveraging, are they using
the communication tools and the
collaboration tools Right to the right.
We using 45 different tools.
I know, right?
So the first thing I said is like, let's,
let's get us all in the same place.
Let's just, you know, get
us all in the same place.
Let's make sure we know
how to collaborate.
Let's set the ground rules for that.
And then it was things like, okay,
like, you know, let's make sure we
have good visibility and transparency.
Mm-hmm.
Um, people are working on a lot of stuff.
Let's get that to the forefront.
Let's have people share
what they're working on.
'cause what that's gonna do is
it's gonna really give us, at a
high level, it's like, Hey, are
we moving in the right direction?
Are we applying our efforts to
the right direction as well?
And then also, are there opportunities
for collaboration that we don't see?
Yeah.
Now we're a global church.
Yeah.
Right.
We're a global church.
You have people.
As far away as Saigon
and as close to San Jose.
Mm-hmm.
So really how do we make sure that
we aren't duplicating efforts?
Mm-hmm.
How do we make sure that we're taking
every opportunity we can to really
just collaborate when we need to?
Um, and then, you know, the
other thing is, is just really
how do we get, uh, good data?
Mm-hmm.
Nice.
And this is something I'm
actually really passionate about,
is I think there we have data.
Here we're church.
We take actions that churn up data.
The question is, is how do we get
all that data in the same place?
Mm.
Because when you get the data in
the same place, that's when you
could really start doing cool stuff.
Whether you could start
answering questions, you can
start vis doing visualizations.
You could say, okay, you know, how
are we, um, looking at church health?
Uh, what does church health even
mean when we look at these numbers?
Um, the thing I'm actually really
excited about is we're working
on, uh, can we share Ministry Hub?
Can we talk about that?
Yeah, go for it.
Yeah.
Nice.
So Ministry Hub is really.
Exciting because I was talking with, uh,
pastor Jackie and Pastor Ian, and I said,
okay, I always think of this as like,
you know, small, medium, large, V one,
V two, V three, V one is let's just get
the data in a way that we can see it.
Mm-hmm.
I think V two is be able to do things with
the data that help us to answer questions
so that we can in turn, um, you know,
pull different levers in the business
or the church in this case to help it
grow as we get to a hundred locations.
What I'm excited about is the third part,
because now not only do we have the data,
not only do we know, do we know how to.
Pull it and get questions, but
with three, we can start having
it identify things to us that we
didn't even know that we needed to.
Mm.
So it starts identifying, hey,
these might be problem areas,
this might be areas where you can
really kind of dive in for growth.
And I'd say another area too is, you
know, we have so much experience, um, as
we've done this over the last 12 years.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Yes.
Uh, or no.
13, 13 years.
Thir.
14 now.
14 years.
Yeah.
So 14 years.
I should add that.
That's my fault.
COOI should have my number, but
uh, but yeah, so we'll cut it out.
We'll, we'll fix it in post.
We can just leave it.
Uh, no, but 14 years, um, you
know, we have a lot of knowledge.
Yes.
And I really think that one thing
I'm excited about is how do we
identify those best practices?
How do we learn and get us into the
experimental mindset because so good.
We have all these locations,
let's try new things.
Let, let's get campus pastors.
Yes, in the mindset of like, Hey, I
know these are my rocks, these are
these things that I'm working towards.
Let's pull on different things and try
different things to move these forward.
If it works, great, let's
expand it to the region.
Yes, if it works past the
region, let's explain it to,
or let's get that to the globe.
So really, I'm just excited
to see how data works.
I want to get us in the experimentation
mindset where people just become fanatical
about trying new things to really try
to push the levers, but ultimately
get, uh, get us closer to our mission.
Right.
Adam Smallcombe: You, you are
experiencing why Eric already
in one month has got a nickname.
What's the nickname?
It's Eric GPT.
Erik Fortin: Oh, he's like chat
Adam Smallcombe: GPT.
Yeah.
Uh, in the flesh.
Yeah.
Can I jump in and ask like, uh, what's
one of the weirdest things you've
experienced by working on a trip staff?
Erik Fortin: Weirdest
things I've experienced.
By, I mean, like you stuff,
Adam Smallcombe: you're working
in tech companies, you're working
in, uh, these corporate settings.
Yeah.
Now you're at the church.
Mm-hmm.
Like, I mean, I've only
ever worked at the church.
Yep.
What's weird?
People
Erik Fortin: are so nice here.
That's amazing.
People are so nice.
I mean, I'm not saying that, you know,
everywhere you work, people are jerks,
but, you know, I think here, um, and,
and it's actually kind of the, um.
Something I really
appreciate coming to life.
Yeah.
Um, I know we were in an all hands or
staff meeting and really one thing I
put out there, but I almost feel like
I didn't need to, was just this notion
of giving and receiving feedback.
Yeah.
Um, and I think one thing I always
used to tell teams that I manage was,
when you give feedback, you should
do so with the sole intent that you
want to see that person become better.
Yeah.
At what it is that they're doing
or what they're working on.
And similarly, when you receive feedback,
you receive it knowing that that person
who's giving it to you is giving it to
you because they want you to be better.
I like that.
And I really feel like
here there was no pretense.
Um, you're not finding people trying to
just like, you know, get ahead of each
other, get on top of each other, right.
So that their review's gonna
look better than theirs.
They're gonna get bigger
raises and all that stuff.
But no, I really think, um, you know,
character is really present here.
Yes.
Um, people bring each other
along for the journey.
It's not like, I'm gonna keep this
for me, so I look really good.
It's like, no.
Like, Hey, I'm working on this thing.
I actually think you could
bring a lot, you know?
Um.
What does it look like to, to
have you collaborate with us?
So yeah, it's, it's, it's amazing.
But it's taken a little bit.
I'm like, whoa.
Like I don't gotta be on guard here.
Like, it's not like jail, like
nobody's trying to steal my, steal
my biscuit and shank me, but yeah.
I don't
Adam Smallcombe: have to
Erik Fortin: have
Adam Smallcombe: to have soap on the rope.
Right.
Arun Koshy: Oh man.
So how do you, how do you feel about,
um, how you want this to kind of like
your vision for how storms work out?
Usually it's the global lead pastor.
It's your mission.
It kind of gets funneled down.
Now you kind of have.
These leaders all around you that are
kind of helping scale this mission?
Yeah.
How do you, you know, allow that to.
Be in their hands to scale, but also
protect it in a way that in every
new campus, it maintains that level
of kind of quality and mission.
Yeah, I think that's a
Adam Smallcombe: really good question
in the sense that you, what you, what
I think is you wanna be able to have
a vision that's really clear, but
the journey, uh, is up for grabs.
Mm-hmm.
You know, how you wanna get there and
how we look on the way, that's what
you wanna bring in, personalities,
you wanna bring in feedback.
I think for me, uh, I'm by
nature quite collaborative.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I'm actually not that controlling.
Mm-hmm.
Uh,
Adam Smallcombe: I like to just
set a general direction and
say, how are we gonna do it
Right.
Adam Smallcombe: Uh, what's it gonna
look like, not just even on the
C-suite, but from a church component.
Mm-hmm.
I actually have always part of the vision.
Even the vision wasn't all my idea.
It was Kingdom builders that we got away.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, contributors that came into a room.
We got up in Tahoe and we, we
kind of put this together out of
what does that church deserve?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
What kind of vision, what size,
vision does our church deserve?
I had already pitched this
idea of a hundred locations.
Mm-hmm.
But it was that team that
came up with the 10 years, the
timeline, they time boxed it.
Now that put pressure on me.
I'm like, okay, well, I mean, if
we're all in this together Yeah.
Then we're all responsible as well.
Mm-hmm.
And so I think that that is.
For me where I, I feel like
having people like Eric and Pastor
Andrew, uh, I've just, uh, I was
talking to Pastor Andrew today.
We are literally assembling a, an
Avengers team of global church operations.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, we've got, um, a few key people in
some other roles I can't reveal just yet.
Yeah.
But this is, this is kind of like, uh,
in my mind, a up and coming tech company
would be very jealous of the team.
Mm-hmm.
That is assembling for the church.
Yeah.
I feel like why not?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Why can't the church have
the best and the brightest?
Teams.
Arun Koshy: Yeah.
Adam Smallcombe: Why?
I think back in the day, it was like
the single moms or the retirees that
would work at the church, you'd have
Ethel in the front office because
she's done with working right now.
She's supported by, you know, welfare
and so she's gonna answer the phones
and that was kind of like who you
would have on the church staff.
Mm-hmm.
But really, if we've got a crazy
vision and we're in a crazy area, we
need the best and brightest teams.
Yeah.
And I think that that wins respect
from the church, that we're
putting the best at the forefront.
Arun Koshy: Yeah.
I love that.
I, I, I was talking to you guys
about, um, this incident that
I was going through at work.
Um, but the reason that we've
kind of gotten through we're
like nearing the end of it.
And like the response, the reason we're
nearing that point so quickly is because
of the team that was hired around us.
And it was like every single person.
Like has that mission on them.
Yeah.
That they don't want to drop the
ball as they're going through
this, so they'll figure it out.
Yeah.
Along the way.
It's not like this is my role and
this is the only thing I do, it's
this is the mission and this is
what I have to do to get us there.
Yeah.
And it might expand past
your role and all of that.
Go into the personnel you were talking
about, you know, your past meeting,
people liking to do these interviews.
What do you see about like the people
that you wanna bring in on the team?
Like what's your values
that you wanna bring in?
Erik Fortin: I mean.
Number one, I think that, uh, they,
they just really have to embrace the
fact that they're working as part of
something that's bigger than themselves.
Yeah.
Um, I think when that is something
that you really take on, and I even
saw this at tech companies, you
know, people would come in, they'd
have this mindset of like, wow.
Like they're not just saying,
oh, I deserve this job.
They're saying, no, I get to work here.
Yeah.
And I know that is a pervasive
element at the church as well.
I think that's one of the characteristics.
Um, I really also think like, yeah, having
that bring others with you mentality.
I think that's something that I look for.
Right.
You know, they recognize that hey, God
has gifted people with different gifts.
We all make the part of the pie and the
different giftings that we have, how do
I leverage their talents and skills to
really kind of bring them on So good.
And make sure that they get the
opportunity to not only, uh, work on
something that's gonna, you know, in
their giftings that only they have, but
also get to see them grow as a result.
Yes.
You know, people that I've
had the opportunity to even
mentor here in my first month.
Yeah.
One of the things I love is getting
to sit with them and say, not just do
this, this, this, but actually, hey.
Let's look at how this is
building up your career.
So one day, hopefully you're
gonna work here for forever.
Um, I, I would like to work
here for the rest of my career.
Yes.
But, um, you know, you really get
to see them even build up their
repertoire of what they're doing here.
Um, I also think intellectual
curiosity is a big thing, right?
So if you were to look at
this mic stand, I always.
Frame it this way.
And when I would interview
people, tell 'em about the job,
they'd say, what do I have to do?
Say, well, if you could look at this
mic stand and say, you know, you could
look at it and say, oh, it's perfect.
Nothing needs to change about it.
Mm-hmm.
But if you have a deep seated intellectual
curiosity, you naturally are gonna
be looking at this mic stand and
thinking, oh, what are the different
things I could do to improve it?
Maybe we could, you
know, make this longer.
Maybe we can give, there are
more inputs for change, really.
Mm-hmm.
That intellectual curiosity is a
big thing that I've seen in a lot of
successful people that I've worked with.
And that's something I'm
definitely gonna look.
For here as well.
Yeah.
Because I think that what we don't
wanna fall into is this mindset
of like, I'm just gonna keep doing
the same thing because Right.
Yeah.
You know, it, it, it might work.
Yeah.
We wanna get into the place of like, hey,
we are, um, really being good stewards of
that faith that people have invested into
us and going out there and saying, no,
we're gonna try to just push the envelope.
This is so key
Adam Smallcombe: because I think
when it comes to, uh, the tech
world, that thinking is automatic.
Mm-hmm.
It's almost like to survive,
you have to think innovative.
You have to have that.
That insight or that
technical, inquisitive nature.
Right.
But I think in the church,
traditionally, it's been, well,
there's a way that the church has done.
Yeah.
It's written in the Bible, Paul did it.
Mm-hmm.
Know we're gonna do it like that.
Mm-hmm.
And you can't venture away from it, which
is such an antiquated perspective when
God is the greatest creative mind ever.
Mm-hmm.
And has given us the creative
ability to be innovative.
Why would we not look at the church,
look at the teams, look at the products,
look at what we do, and think, is
there a new way to approach it?
Arun Koshy: Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely.
Oh, actually this is a really
interesting part 'cause I've grown up,
um, in an Orthodox church before this,
where it's very, very traditional.
Yes.
I mean, you, we didn't even play music
like no instruments, like depending
on the church that you went to, it
was like, that was like the big thing
that you could add to the service.
Wow.
And so like going from that
version of church to like all
the different versions of church
that you'll see around the world.
Yeah.
Like how do you, as a leader of the
church think about this aspect of, okay,
this is a good way to do innovation or.
This isn't the thing that we should
do because maybe it does divert too
much from maybe what the Bible says.
Like, where is that line
and how do you balance that?
I think there is a line, and I think
Adam Smallcombe: there is maybe more than
a line, I think there's a balance, right?
Mm-hmm.
There's a balance between what
is good traditions mm-hmm.
That we don't wanna venture away
from because we wanna preach the
word, we wanna have, uh, great
doxology, we wanna have communion.
We wanna, we wanna do what the
Lord's commanded us to, but.
There's a way to do
those things in new ways.
Mm-hmm.
So it's not like I'm abandoning things,
we're just finding new ways to do it.
Mm-hmm.
And how do we actually do it in
a way that's fresh and current,
uh, and really fits our community.
But this is definitely a tension, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
In the church world, I feel like there is
a, a tension even with people like, who
wanna criticize, oh, you can't do that.
Mm-hmm.
That's not church.
I even remember when
we first went to Italy.
One of the things that God spoke to
me of the reason we needed to plant
a church in Rome is because the
people I was talking to when they
were looking at Vive on Instagram,
they were saying, that's not church.
Mm-hmm.
And my spirit was like, well, let
me show you Yeah know, because
you are stuck in a very Catholic
old traditional mindset and you've
canceled out that that's not church.
Mm-hmm.
But what you've canceled out is how
we're gonna reach the people that
the Catholic church isn't reaching.
Mm-hmm.
And so there is.
There is people that haven't
been reached that require us to
pioneers new ways to reach them.
Mm-hmm.
And that's where the church thrives.
Arun Koshy: Yeah, this has
been amazing conversation.
I feel like I have a lot
more to ask you guys.
Mm-hmm.
So we might have to do
a part two, you guys.
Oh, let's, let's do a part two.
I think you're gonna
have to do a part two.
We're gonna have to bring you back on.
I mean, maybe part two will be after
a few more months, we can talk about
the progress that you've made as well.
So, oh, that is, I mean,
Eric, GPT right now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Where's Eric now?
So two
Erik Fortin: months is an
eternity in the church.
Yeah, exactly.
So
Arun Koshy: I'm just really excited.
I'm glad that everybody get to see a
little bit more about your background
and hear more of what you do.
You've been great on the podcast.
Yes.
Um, so we're definitely
gonna have you back.
But if this is again, your first time
listening, or if you're a long time
listener, please share, like, subscribe.
All the links are in the
description box below.
Um, and stay tuned for the next episode.
Let's go.
Awesome.
