Hype Pod - The Hype Network Podcast

Arun Koshy: Welcome to the Hype Pod,
where we have real conversations on

business tech, innovation and culture
trends, all from a faithful perspective.

I'm your host, Arun Kohi,
alongside I, me, my co-host.

Hello Pastor Adam Small comb.

And today we're joined by Joshua Perry
jp, a concert new and co-founder of

Trust God Bro, a director, consumer
brand, and global online community,

sparking conversations about faith
with experience in creative direction

branding and social media marketing.

He's passionate about helping business
leaders unlock their creative potential.

Welcome to the podcast.

It's great to be here.

So good to see you, buddy.

How exciting.

Come on, we've

Adam Smallcombe: got JP in the house.

Jp, I feel like

Arun Koshy: you guys have
a, a deep connection.

We've got history.

We gotta talk about that.

We got history

Adam Smallcombe: just a couple
years on the Hype Network together.

Yeah, yeah.

Uh, early adopter came in.

Yeah.

I dunno.

Where we first met.

Was it a hype event or
was it an Amen experience?

I think it was.

Joshua Perry: Amen.

2023.

Yeah.

And it was like my first exposure to like.

The, like, everything about like faith and
business, I've never seen those worlds.

Me.

That's right.

And so, you know, my old, my
face during that first Yeah.

Conference was like, what's going on?

Exactly.

So, but that was, that was great.

That was cool.

Did

Adam Smallcombe: you speak at that one?

Joshua Perry: I didn't.

No.

That was just like talking
to everyone at that.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Adam Smallcombe: And so I found out
about GP and, uh, trust, trust God, bro.

That the impact, the influence.

And I'm like, man, this
guy's a, a marketing genius.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Branding genius.

He's a entrepreneur.

He talks the language.

He's a man of faith.

Mm-hmm.

He aims big, he's got big.

It's not my kind of guy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so, uh, really from there,
we've just been, uh, been

Arun Koshy: buddies since.

Yeah.

You were at a creative
director at E two at the time.

I was, yeah.

How did you find like hype

Joshua Perry: and vibe and
all that kind of stuff?

You know, I, I think it was just like note
noticing, like what's around the area.

I mean, during that time was
when the conversation started.

Uh, I mean me and God in prayer.

Just like what, what that transition from,
um, working in an organization to then

wanting to step out in entrepreneurship.

Yeah.

And in that season was just trying to find
people who could relate to my journey.

Wow.

And so I think that's
when, you know, amen.

I Conference was really, um, when, when
I started really taking notice of it.

Yeah.

And so that like really
drew me in and just got me

connected to, to this community.

So it's been great.

Arun Koshy: No, it's really cool.

Joshua Perry: I will

Arun Koshy: say that is a very common
thing we hear is people that come to

Hype Network, uhhuh, it's not something
you see in church a lot, right.

Like business and church and really
trying to amplify both together.

For sure.

So I think it's really cool that here,
you know, like obviously you're doing

it right, your real life experience,
but you've seen this network in

Joshua Perry: this
community, we can do it.

Yeah.

It's, it's been amazing to see
the, the amount of diversity.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Like that so many people's backgrounds,
their ethnic makeup mm-hmm.

To the type of businesses
that they're building.

I think those.

Perspectives are so unique and
it allows you to kind of see what

you're building with fresh eyes.

Yeah.

And so that's what I've
also been enjoying the most.

Yeah.

Adam Smallcombe: I, I, I love that
because it's, I think the uniqueness

of Hype Network is, it's almost
a crowdsourced, uh, contribution.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

You know, I think the traditional,
uh, church business ministry is you

get a pastor up who doesn't know
anything about business, but just does

a bible study from business people.

Right, right, right.

And it's like, well, how does
that apply to my business?

Please, please help me.

Uh, whereas what we wanted to do
is pull Christian business people

together and help each other.

Right.

Yeah.

And, and that's the beauty of it,
because you've got someone at a

stage that you are going into.

They've been there.

Mm-hmm.

Or you've actually got someone
three stages ahead that can give

you heads up hacks and, you know,
hurdles that they've overcome.

Mm-hmm.

And I think it's just.

In the community of every church is gold.

The pastor is not the
source of everything.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Adam Smallcombe: Can I just say that?

Maybe we can clip that on YouTube.

Yeah.

The pastor is not the
source of everything.

Speaker 4: Right.

Adam Smallcombe: But I think too
many pastors take the seat of going,

well, I've gotta be everything
for everyone in every sphere.

So they're running the women's ministry
and the kids ministry and everything.

And the business ministry, I think
the job of the pastor is to source

within the community the experts.

Yep.

Put them in a room.

Yeah.

Help everyone become experts.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Adam Smallcombe: And sit back
and go, that's cool, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I love that.

You know?

Mm-hmm.

And that's, I think that actually
takes a secure, um, probably a secure

pastor, but also a secure setting.

Absolutely.

Joshua Perry: Yeah.

And every single time that I've been
around this community, I, I just really

admired the posture of like, no matter
what stage of entrepreneurship someone

was at, or ministry or leadership mm-hmm.

Everyone had a posture of just learning.

Learning.

Mm-hmm.

Learning, learning, sitting down,
hearing each other's stories.

And that's what.

I really enjoy as well.

Like that tone is very contagious.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Adam Smallcombe: Because it could,
like, from my perspective, coming

from Newcastle, Australia, alright.

I grew up in a place called Hillsborough.

Yeah.

Right.

Coming to the Silicon Valley,
you're instantly around PhDs.

Right.

People who engineer, uh, code.

I wouldn't even know
how to start that stuff.

And you can just go, oh my gosh,
I'm, I am not in Kansas anymore.

Yeah.

Um, and then try and do like
this pedal intelligence.

Mm-hmm.

Or get the principal, Hey, who's
the smartest person in the room?

The one who makes sure they're
smarter people around you.

Right, right, right.

And so that's just kind of the,
the idea and that humility, I

think allows other people to shine.

Arun Koshy: Yeah.

No, and I think the big, the best
part about the founders that do

join are the ones that are really
looking to share their knowledge.

Exactly.

There's lot of people
that are looking to learn.

Right.

And there's a lot of
people looking to share.

And I think that comes from like the
faith aspect that underlies all of it.

Right.

And so receiving is one thing,
but somebody's gotta like be

sending out this information.

Right.

A lot of the stuff you see in
business world is like, I know it,

so I'm gonna keep it to myself.

Yeah.

I don't wanna share with you.

Yeah.

Because I want my success to myself,
but really kingdom culture is like, how

do we build it up together big time.

And that's JP and and that's jp.

And so that's what we're gonna go into.

I wanna hear a little bit more about
your story, like your creative journey.

Yeah.

How did it start for you?

How did you get,

Joshua Perry: become the
creative director of a church?

Right.

I did not expect myself to be in ministry.

Mm-hmm.

Like, I thought my entire
life was gonna go one way.

Right.

Like, I, you know, male,
male model, obviously.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Exactly right.

You like the obvious.

My, my background is actually
in like, painting illustration.

Oh.

Oh, really?

Really?

Like I was, I wanted to be an artist.

Huh?

Like, I thought I was just
gonna sell paintings in a

gallery for the rest of time.

Like, I loved cartoons and comic books.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I was, I looked completely different.

I wasn't, as, you know,
Jack had circle glasses.

People would call me Harry Potter.

Um, you've had a transformation.

Transformation.

God's had so much favor race.

Put the glow up, man.

Oh, we could do this cutaways.

Yeah.

We have the cutaway production team.

We're gonna do a glow up.

Want people to see that?

No, it's fine.

You can, you can totally put that on.

Yeah.

Um, so I just developed
this passion for art.

Nice.

Um, and I think the reason why
I loved it was because I felt.

Like, I could bring and
birth something to the world.

Oh, that's cool.

Like, no one could, could envision.

I had this imagination.

And so, uh, towards high school
I started to recognize that.

I was like, you know what?

Like, I'm gonna go all in on this.

I wanna be, um, a great artist.

But I didn't know like, what
to really get into like what

industry that I wanted to focus on.

Right.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Joshua Perry: Um, and when
I was in high school, that's

when all the Marvel movies Yep.

Started to pop off Right.

And get popular.

Mm-hmm.

And I remember sitting in the first,
okay, I'm, I'm gonna go a little bit

like please just kind of nerd out.

Take this is okay.

Take, make him

Arun Koshy: happy.

'cause he's not a Marvel but me.

Joshua Perry: I'm gonna take
right now, but I'll put it,

I'll get it under control.

Uh, so like, I was sitting in the
theater and I saw this scene where

like, iron Man just, you know, he puts
on this suit Uhhuh, and I'm like that.

I want to do that, I want to create that.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

And so that just embarked this
whole new journey of finding out the

type of artists that put themselves
in the entertainment industry.

And I started to learn about
concept art and digital painting.

Wow.

And so I had to make that, make
that shift from painting on Canvas

to then painting on Photoshop.

Speaker 4: Wow.

Joshua Perry: Uh, so that was
an interesting kind of technical

learning curve that I had to get over.

Yeah.

But once I was able to grasp that
software, I was able to really like, do

things that I couldn't do traditionally.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

And so I wanted to get
into character designing.

Yep.

I loved even like Pixar, which was
a different style than live action.

Yep.

Um, wanting to get into that.

Yep.

And towards the end of high school,
I went to a community college.

I was still trying to pursue art.

Speaker 6: Yep.

Joshua Perry: I didn't
know where to take it.

I didn't know how to start or enter
into the, in entertainment industry.

And so, right.

Um, at that time, I.

I broke up with a relationship at that
moment and I was like, Lord, I'm single.

I'm yours.

Like, take a, hold my life.

Life.

Just, you know, completely lead me.

God, I'm available.

Yeah.

So, yes.

Um, that's when I met a recruiter
at a private art school, um,

in Pasadena called Art Center.

And so I set up an orientation
and I drove to art Center and it's

like in the hills of Pasadena.

Wow.

And it was like beautiful, like it
was it Art Center College of Design

is like the, I personally say it's
like the Harvard of art schools.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

Like you have people in
transfer, transportation, design.

Oh, okay.

Um, environmental design.

This

Adam Smallcombe: is a Wellknown school.

It's

Joshua Perry: a very well established
school in the artistic world.

People who are in the
entertainment industry.

It's a very renowned school for, and
you are in there and I'm in there

and, and I'm just wanting to apply.

Right.

Like I, I'm from Oceanside.

Yeah.

Um, San Diego area.

Like, this is all new to me.

Sure.

And you know, as a kid, I
was never really like smart.

I mean, I, I was an artist, you know,
so I was like, like, I can draw.

I can't count.

Yeah, exactly.

And so I was like, oh man, like,
God, if I'm gonna pursue this Yep.

I want to do it at the best of the
best, like at the highest level.

Mm-hmm.

At the highest level.

Yeah.

And I was just sending out
like, ha Mary prayers, okay.

Mm-hmm.

Like, God, you know, just help

Adam Smallcombe: me,

Joshua Perry: help me.

I wanna, I love it.

I want to step into this,
like greatness, you know?

Yeah.

And, and so being exposed
to that was so new.

And so I worked really
hard on my portfolio.

Uh, I spent months, uh, throughout this
process and sent in my application.

Mm-hmm.

And this was in early 26, uh, 2016.

Mm-hmm.

A couple months.

Uh, later I get a, I get a envelope
in the mail saying I was accepted.

To the, uh, institution,
love to a private college.

Love it.

Love it.

And so, and then a couple weeks
later after that, they had to

let me know that they wanted to
offer me a full ride scholarship.

Oh, wow.

What did you put in your application?

Yeah, maybe we should change it all on how
to do, but that season was wild because

I was like kind of tithing for the first
time and I was, oh, that's what, you know.

Yeah.

Love threw that in there.

You have no idea how much That's insane.

You know?

No way.

I was like, this stuff works.

Like this is insane.

And so it was just a huge, like, you
know what I felt like at the time, it

was like a David and Goliath moment.

I, I never knew I could
take something that on.

Right.

And just thinking, God,
throughout the whole process,

I did not know anyone in la.

Right.

Like I had, you know, I was
20 years old at the time.

Right.

All I had was just passion.

Mm-hmm.

And the tithe a hundred percent.

And just like the obedience.

But now I look back and I'm like.

Man, that kind of faith.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Adam Smallcombe: That

Joshua Perry: like, yeah,
that faith, that, that, yeah.

Almost

Adam Smallcombe: innocent like faith.

But I love that because you know,
it's like, you know, some, I can

talk to people like, who are pretty
established in their careers.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Adam Smallcombe: And I'm sitting
there and talking like, oh, but

pastor the tie, that's such a, yeah.

Such a large amount of money.

Yeah.

Is that any different from the 20-year-old
who's trying to live on next to nothing

but trusting God with that little bit.

And here you are saying, God,
can you give me this avenue?

But God's wanna say, can you,
can you trust me with your money?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And I do believe it's highly connected.

Yep.

That when you say, God,
I'm just gonna trust you.

Right.

And let me open the door.

Right.

'cause do not despise the
day of small beginnings.

Absolutely.

And what God gives you, can
you multiply and be trustworthy

Joshua Perry: at a certain point?

You have to acknowledge that
your reality has to come aligned

with, with scripture, right?

Yeah.

Like you have to, you
have to take that risk.

Yep.

And.

And really, you know, especially when
it comes to like, like finances, right?

Yeah.

It's like, test the lord, test the Yep.

Test the Lord.

And, and, and out of that heart
that, that genuine place of wanting

to dream for more, you know, and,
and just doing it from a good place.

Yeah.

Um, that's where I was at.

And so I, uh, just speed, speed
things up a little bit, but

I, uh, I moved to LA mm-hmm.

And I was just exposed to people who
were doing things at such a great level,

you know, from different, uh, majors.

Mm-hmm.

You know, people who at the design
school, at the design school mm-hmm.

You know, a lot of buddies that I
know, um, that I've graduated from that

school are working at like Tesla now.

Oh yeah.

Nice.

Or they're working at, you know, different
great companies and so, um, but I was

meeting people all over the world.

You know, people from Korea, Singapore,
um, you know, all over Europe,

and everyone came to the school.

Mm-hmm.

And so I was like, you know what,
I'm gonna show these people what

San Diego got, you know, I'm gonna
show, you know, I in America.

Yeah.

I'm gonna do every, like,
I'm a, I really apply myself.

And so it was kind of the first
time that I was starting to get

noticed, and that was new for me.

Mm-hmm.

And I was like, you know what?

I'm a really, like, I can't
believe this is happening.

I'm, I'm, I'm here.

I'm as talented as I need to be.

Mm-hmm.

I'm, as I'm at the right place.

Mm-hmm.

I'm starting to get connected.

I'm going to conventions where
people who are in the entertainment

industry, people are, who are on the,
the team at Marvel Studios designing

these characters and environments.

Like I'm finally getting to talk to them.

Wow.

I'm showing them my portfolio.

So doors

Adam Smallcombe: are opening Yeah.

And

Joshua Perry: I'm, I'm just running.

Right, right.

Just sheer passion.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And.

I started to put my
faith on the back burner.

Adam Smallcombe: Okay.

Joshua Perry: I started to mm-hmm.

You know, blessings came.

Yeah.

The twist.

I hear the tension coming.

Yeah.

Because it's like, I get storytelling.

I get there and I'm like, you know,
I'm gonna bring, I'm gonna bring

Jesus to the entertainment industry.

Right.

Like, I'm a, you know, I promise like,
God, if you do this for me, I'm gonna

talk about you, you know, to these people.

Right.

Like, I'm a, and then, and
let me get there first guy.

I'm still working on it.

So I get there and I start noticing
this like, internal conflict inside.

Wow.

And, you know, my brain works is
like, I, I had always had a heart

for like, just ministry as a whole.

Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: Being connected
with the real world, being

connected with people who are
experiencing real challenges, right?

Mm-hmm.

And I never really wanted to get to
a place in my career where I was.

So, um.

I was so removed from that reality
of what people are going through

on a daily basis, whether that's
like, uh, homelessness or whatever.

Cause you know, like I, I, I knew
I wanted to contribute more than

just my art to the world or help
people do something impactful.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: And so, you know, I'm
pursuing like, this whole career

and, you know, not that I'm, uh, sort
of, I don't wanna disrespect anyone

who's currently in that career.

Right?

Yeah.

Like, and God has given the favor
and honor to, to be in that, in

those roles and stuff like that.

But like, uh, you spend a lot
of time in a different world.

You know, you spend a lot of time just
creating stuff apart from reality.

And, and I just had this internal
conflict, like, I don't know,

like, I don't know if this is it.

And I went to a Comic-Con, and so like at
the Comic-Con, everyone's dressed up and

I was just having this like argument in my
head whether or not like this was it and.

I just took a TII took a moment and I
stepped aside and I just started to cry.

'cause it was like, what?

Like, God, like what's happening in me?

Speaker 6: Right.

Joshua Perry: Like, why, why,
why am I not happy right now?

Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: And it was in that
moment that the Lord started to

reveal to me like, I'm calling
you to something else now.

Like, your time heres is done.

Mm.

Like you've, you fulfilled the time that,
um, that I'm, that I've had you here for.

And I'm like, so how did
the church open up then?

I just, I, I just like, I was
in my first year, my right.

I had a full ride for four years.

Oh.

Oh, so you've walked away from money Yeah.

Scholarship.

Yeah.

And the

Arun Koshy: dream, I mean, this is
what you've been looking forward to.

Forget about the dream.

You all away from money.

Joshua Perry: It's crazy.

Like, you know, it's like, how do
you explain that to your professors?

You know, like, and, and yeah.

You, you build all this equity with
professors and students and, and then

it's like, you know, you have this.

You know, deep spiritual experience
and it's like, you know, not

everyone's gonna understand that.

Yeah.

And so, um, the next year rolled
around and I just didn't enroll

in my classes and I dropped out.

Wow.

Uh, dropped outta my dream school.

They, dude, they thought I was crazy.

Wow.

So did you have something lined
up in the So you Absolutely not.

You

Arun Koshy: just knew God had
you called to somebody else.

You were, it was to a point

Joshua Perry: where I couldn't
focus on my, like, study.

Wow.

Like, I couldn't focus on like,
just getting into my zone and

painting and like, it was,
it was disrupting everything.

Yeah.

And so, um, I, I dropped out and
that, that year, 2017 is like, that

was like the year of the wilderness.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Um, I mean, my whole identity was
wrapped up in like, what I could paint,

you know, I was like, everything that
I was confident in was now almost,

it felt like removed in my life.

Mm-hmm.

Wow.

Because I didn't know what I was gonna do.

Like, I literally only knew how to paint.

Adam Smallcombe: Yeah.

So you didn't know.

What God was leading into, you just
knew what he was leading you away from.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Adam Smallcombe: Yeah.

Sometimes that's how God works.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, sometimes it's a step of
faith and you have that, I dunno

what it is, but I know what it's not.

Yeah.

Right.

And so that still takes a
lot of courage to do that.

Yeah.

Arun Koshy: Yeah.

And pastor, this is a question for you,
actually, I've heard this a lot where

it's, you pray for these things, right?

You said, this is a Hail Mary prayer.

I want this, this is the thing I want.

And you get in it, you get
in your blessing, right?

And you're unhappy.

And it almost feels like, you
feel like that is the answer to

prayer, but that's not actually
what you might've been praying for.

Really?

Yeah.

It's so

Adam Smallcombe: hard
to put a formula on God.

Right.

You know?

'cause sometimes you think, okay God, I
want something, but it's God gonna give

you something that's gonna corrupt you.

Right?

At the same time, God will give you
stuff so that you realize what I wanted

was so much lower than what God wanted.

Right.

And, and yet.

How do you formalize God,
I don't think you can.

You've gotta let God cook.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You can let God do his thing.

Right.

Right.

And we've just gotta like walk obedient.

Right.

Yeah.

And hope that we don't try and
manipulate the situation Absolutely.

To get what we want and realize,
man, I wasted so much time mm-hmm.

That I could have probably just been
obedient with God in the first place.

Absolutely.

Arun Koshy: Yeah.

And I, I feel, I feel like sometimes
you might just get stuck in it being

like, this is what I prayed for, right.

So I must need to stay here.

Maybe the thoughts that I'm
hearing aren't like, I need to

step away and I'm hearing it wrong.

So it's actually like now even more
impressed that you're like, you know,

this is what God delivered to me.

I need to like step in and stay in it.

But no, it was like, I
need to step away actually

Joshua Perry: and see what God had for me.

So, you know, on a side note, I I, I was
just like, you know, I journal, I talk

to myself, you know, like there's those
moments where you're trying to figure

things out with the Lord in prayer.

Mm-hmm.

And I've come to that realization too, is
like, God's not a formula, he's a father.

Yeah, exactly.

And if you treat him.

As a father, you're able to receive.

Beautiful.

And you're not able to have like
these unrealistic expectations that

if, you know, this is dependent
on a series of inputs and I'm

gonna get a series of outputs.

It's like that.

There's no way, like, yeah, you're
gonna send, this is a creative

brain because I the exact, that's

Arun Koshy: a creative brain.

'cause I see it inputs
output, that's all input.

But he's like, no, you got the no.

You just, I see

Adam Smallcombe: colors.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like that's just, that's a
whole un So you're in the

wilderness season of your life.

Yeah.

What transpired from there to
take you down the ministry?

Joshua Perry: Mm-hmm.

So avenue.

I, I was just kind of figuring things out.

Um, you know, I got a part-time
job, like I'm, at this point

you're still in la I had no idea.

Yeah.

I was in LA Okay.

In Pasadena and I had no
idea what I was gonna do.

Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: I always knew
I was interested in business.

Mm-hmm.

But I never understood what
I was gonna use it for.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: Um, so that always
had like a background passion,

you know, of mine and so.

Um, but it all changed when my oldest
brother, so I'm the youngest of six.

Oh wow.

Speaker 4: Okay.

Joshua Perry: And my oldest brother,
he's like 20 years older than me.

Oh, that's a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's kind of a lot.

He's like, he could be my dad.

Yeah, it's true actually.

I mean, whenever we're in
public I call him dad, so like,

Speaker 5: yeah.

Joshua Perry: I'm almost
cover, well, it's not,

Adam Smallcombe: not not far off.

'cause I had, uh, Madea when I was 22.

So only two years difference.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

Oh, oh wow.

He could be your dad.

Joshua Perry: Okay.

Um, so I had seen some things online,
you know, while I was in art school,

but I never really like took the
time to like, acknowledge them.

But, um, I saw some, some church
that he was involved with.

Um, so he gives me a call and
this was like a few months

after I had already dropped out.

He's like, Hey, like, how are you doing?

I was like, I'm not doing so well.

And he's like, how's art school?

And I was like, uh, I'm not there anymore.

You know, I had to catch him up
on the whole, the whole thing.

And so he's like, that's weird
because I had a dream about you

and I felt like you were lost.

And so, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm
here helping out volunteering.

Uh, we have a church plant here
in Elk Grove in Sacramento.

Uh, once you just come up and visit.

Speaker 4: Right.

Joshua Perry: Um, just come up and visit.

And so towards the end of
2017, um, you know, I went to

go visit my oldest brother and

Speaker 6: mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: Um, it was, you
know, he kind of showed me

Sacramento for the first time.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, it was a new city.

It was just different and

Speaker 4: Yep.

Joshua Perry: Uh, that first Sunday
going to that church, which was

a new church plant at the time

Speaker 4: mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: You know,
I turned to my brother.

I'm like, oh, what do you do?

And he's like, oh, I'm the,
I'm the creative director here.

Wow.

And I was like, oh,
like, that sounds dumb.

Why do you need a creative
director for church?

You know, like, that's your brother.

Yeah.

That's dumb.

Like, I never, you know, I never heard
of the church for the, you know, like

my whole, I I, I grew up like in the
church, you know, my mom would take me

and my brothers to church all the time.

Sure.

But I never understood

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Joshua Perry: Like how ministry
works and all that stuff.

And so that was like my first exposure.

And so, um, that, you know,
E two Church was, was gr was

so, such a transformational.

A church for me, um, because I got
to be exposed to, this is in 2019.

This is, uh, 20 towards 20
towards the end of 2017.

Got it.

Got

Adam Smallcombe: it.

Yeah.

Joshua Perry: What does E two stand for?

Uh, Ephesians two.

Ephesians two?

Yeah.

Okay.

Ephesians two.

Okay.

Uh, made alive in Christ.

So, but it's in Elk

Adam Smallcombe: Grove at the time.

Joshua Perry: Elk Grove.

Uh, it's in like year two at the time.

Adam Smallcombe: Yep.

Joshua Perry: And so I really get
to learn what my brother does.

And at this point, I
only knew how to paint.

Right.

Like I had this artistic eye
and I knew that was applicable

to other creative skill sets.

Yep.

Um, and I remember so vividly I
saw a camera just kind of sitting

on a, like, production tote bag
kind of thing as, because it

was set up and tear down church.

Yeah.

Like every single weekend, you know,
they'd come out in U-Haul and unload

and it was at a community college.

Mm-hmm.

And so that was like the whole
church planning, you know, process.

I mean, I'm sure.

Y'all.

Adam Smallcombe: Oh, I know about it.

Yeah.

Joshua Perry: Um, and so you got,

Adam Smallcombe: you are
hitting my other triggers,

Marvel and no

Joshua Perry: more.

No more.

Sorry.

Yeah.

And so, uh, and I just
ask myself, what if Mm.

Right.

Like, what if this is the, the next thing?

Mm.

Very powerful.

Right?

Like, what if I, I put
myself outta my comfort zone.

Yeah.

And I grabbed hold of something that, uh,
I didn't expect, but great question, man.

I just threw myself at it.

I started to learn photography.

So you moved to sec?

So I, I just moved to Sacramento.

Wow.

I just dropped it, you know, I was like,
well, I'm not going to, you know, college.

Yep.

You know, just passion started to fade.

Mm-hmm.

And I was like, you know what?

Like, let's just go.

You were just

Adam Smallcombe: volunteering.

Joshua Perry: I was just
volunteering at the time.

Mm-hmm.

And so, uh, that was my first
exposure to leadership ministry.

Yep.

You know, and.

All those opportunities to volunteer at
a church plant, you know, photography,

design opportunity, social media,
and just again, throwing myself at

all of these things to be helpful.

And yeah.

Pastor Jared has, was extremely, like, he
transformed my life at the time, right?

Like, he, he was hard on me.

Good.

Right?

Like he, he, he saw a lot of the
things that needed to be corrected.

Yeah.

Um, one of the things, one of the biggest
challenges I had to overcome was not just

settling to become a technician Yeah.

But a manager and a leader of people.

Wow.

Very good.

Right.

And letting go of the work and, and
welcoming and making space as a leader

for people to come on and serve the
ultimate vision of the ministry.

And so, um, you know, pastor Q and all
of those leaders really poured into me,

um, being committed to serve year after
year, and then eventually in 2020, which.

Again, we all know how that
happened, but, uh, they brought me

on, on staff as creative directory.

Oh, nice.

So, um, at the time we
were able to build it.

You took your brothers job.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you caught a down thing.

Yeah.

So it, it was, it was sweet, you know,
it was like, it was this nice kind of

transitional moment, you know, kind of
set me up and it was, it was amazing.

Um,

Speaker 4: very

Joshua Perry: nice.

But ministry as a, as a whole, that's
where I got to learn about people.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: Like, that's where
I got to learn about, um, the

Lord's work, the local church.

Yeah.

I mean, transf you're saying decisions
being made every single weekend.

Mm-hmm.

Baptisms.

Mm-hmm.

Stories.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, I reflect that, that time in my life,
and I think that's when the Lord really

developed my heart for just people, right?

Yeah.

Um, to be helpful and, and expand.

And so above all of those experiences,
um, you know, I've gotten to lead the

leadership development programs at, at
the church, um, preach a couple times and.

Again, that whole process of growth
was really setting me up for my current

season right now as an entrepreneur.

Yep.

Um, so we did that for three years
and in 2021, kind of diving into the

trust god bro, side of things Yeah.

And how that, that started.

Mm-hmm.

Um, in 2021, I met my business
partner, um, Brandon McFarland.

Adam Smallcombe: Mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: He's a
legend and legend og, great

Adam Smallcombe: guy

Joshua Perry: man, man of God,
like world class, um, thinker.

Yep.

Creator.

Um, and so I met him
and we just hit it off.

Speaker 4: Yep.

Joshua Perry: And I was like, Hey,
like, you know, at the time he had built

this platform called Trust God, bro.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And at the time it was like
only 3 million followers.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Joshua Perry: But, uh, he had,
he had started, you know, and he

has his whole entire backstory as
well, how that platform started.

Mm-hmm.

Um, which is amazing.

But by, by the time we had met by.

We started to really talk about
like where he wanted to take it.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Because

Joshua Perry: he had this massive
platform, but he didn't have an offer

being given to, to anyone, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so I was like, Hey,
like what's on your heart?

And I, you know, we talk about it
to this day, you know, we met at a

coffee shop and I was like, what are
the things that you want to build out?

And it was really three, three things
that till this day we are continuing

to build out, which is, uh, the
overall ministry, merch and music.

Mm.

And so, you know, he had this like logo
that he designed, um, on, on an app.

And I'm like, well, if you want to do
merch, why don't we just take this logo?

That's been your profile picture
for, you know, seven plus years.

'cause people are familiar, you know, you
built so much brand equity with it, you

know, so I'm coming in with this like,
mind of branding and marketing, you know,

and coming in with this like opportunity
and this potential to build something.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: And so, you
know, we launched apparel.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and it was like.

Not, it was very basic, right.

It was almost like a, a print
on demand kind of concept.

Sure.

But just test out the viability of the
business, see if there was a demand.

And so, um, and there was,
and I was like, amazing.

Adam Smallcombe: What do you think
it was about the trust god bro brand

that got so viral and, and took off?

Because I mean, the
concept is pretty basic.

I don't know if everybody knows.

Yeah, I'm sure they do.

But it's just, you know, some scriptures.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, pretty standard posts.

Yeah.

Um, and if anything it wasn't
like an over lavish art artwork.

Yeah.

Um, or simplistic, but
it kind of just hit Yeah.

A season of maybe the world.

Right.

What, what were the

Joshua Perry: components from your mind?

I think what made Brandon, I think, what
an attribute of his leadership that.

That I think it's, it's, it's
very important to acknowledge

is like he's a futurist, right?

Mm-hmm.

And so like in 2013, when people
were posting, using Instagram

to post their food, you know,
at lunch he was posting quotes.

Mm-hmm.

Um, yeah.

So he was so early in the game Yeah.

To early adopt, use that type of
content, minister to people, right?

Mm-hmm.

Like people were just figuring out how to
minister to others on social media, right.

Like that even that was a
whole new concept in of itself.

And so he was just so early to
that, that that really set him up to

build up, um, the audience and the
community that he did at the time.

Mm-hmm.

And so, uh, and then again, till
that, till this day, it just

continues to grow more and more.

It continues to grow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Adam Smallcombe: And where's the
platform at now as far as followership?

Joshua Perry: It's, uh, around over
12 million followers across all

different, um, digital platforms.

So like Facebook, Twitter,
X, all that stuff.

Yep.

Um, the Instagram right
now stands at about 7.9

million followers.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Wow.

Is that it?

Yeah, that's it.

That it?

Yeah.

It's

Joshua Perry: a little three x.

So we just, right now we have a
fantastic team, great platform, man.

Great.

Like team, uh, Brandon, CEO, his wife,
and a fantastic, um, I call him the ninja.

Yep.

He's a fantastic operations manager.

I mean, he's been able to streamline a
lot of logistics for our, uh, you know,

direct to consumer brand right now.

That's so good.

So the bureau, the apparel side.

Arun Koshy: Okay.

I want to touch on the
social media side of things.

Yeah.

'cause to go from obviously 3 million,
you have a brand, but to grow it,

you know, growth is like the number
one thing that you're trying to do.

What do you understand about the
social media space, where it was

then and where it is now, and how
do you really grow in this space?

Joshua Perry: Yeah.

I, I think it's constantly, we're
learning, it's constantly changing.

It's right, every, I mean, three
months at this time, like with

algorithms, algorithms, models, content.

Yeah.

Um, you know, it's one of those
things where, you know, these

social media platforms are going to
reward you for the type of creative

input that you put in it, right?

Mm-hmm.

And, and, and so I think what's
changing right now is how people

are consuming this content.

They're looking at so much creative,
uh, you know, they're looking at so many

different types of creative formats Yep.

And things get more interesting.

And what we feel like is happening
right now is people are tuning in and

following creators or businesses similar
to how they watch a Netflix show.

Mm-hmm.

And so.

As I'm seeing it from my background
as a creative director, I know that

there's also this side of social
media where it's like anyone can pick

up an iPhone and speak, and, uh, and
that's that whole side of things.

But then I also think that like
some of these more advanced

concepts of art direction mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Um, you know, camera work, all of
these things are also starting to

play a big role in how you build a
platform, depending on the type of,

you know, creator you want to be.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: But right now it's
constantly, it's just constantly changing.

Yeah.

What, what people have gone viral for
the trends that they've gone viral

for, maybe they built their account
off of a trend and because that trend

died, everything else they do Yeah.

Doesn't hit.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Um, so it's, it's a, so you've

Adam Smallcombe: gotta
evolve in the branding world.

Joshua Perry: Yeah.

It's, it's, and, and if
you've been able to be like.

Something like, trust God, bro,
you've, you've trained your algorithm

Speaker 6: Yep.

Joshua Perry: Um, for that
type of creative format.

Yep.

Mm-hmm.

And so that's what is able to keep the
platform growing the way that it is, but

for people who are just starting out,
um, you know, it's, it's constant testing

what works and, and stuff like that.

So, yeah.

So

Arun Koshy: for you guys, what was it
specifically that you guys were able

to, was it influencer marketing or what
was the key concepts that allowed you

guys to kind of succeed in this space?

Joshua Perry: You know, I think
it's, I think it's just consistency.

Oh, that's a big one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Because, you know, with, with Brandon
and his, and he has his whole, uh,

thought process and, and, and explanation
for how he kind of approaches.

Mm-hmm.

But from being able to learn about
what he does, um, he didn't use

any third party scheduling apps.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

It's all manual posting.

He kept a pulse.

Of all the trends throughout the years,
throughout the decades, um, ultimately

that consistency was able to feed
and reach people in so many different

spaces, from professional sports to
celebrities, you know, like really,

really big names coming across the page.

And, and, and I think what's also
great is it wasn't overly branded.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Adam Smallcombe: Right.

I think when it comes to social
media, it's fascinating to me how,

you know, people want to, you know,
run stats, insights, time of the

day to post that kind of stuff.

I think it all comes down to one basic
principle that if it's not interesting,

it's not gonna get engagement.

Like, is this interesting?

Right.

Is this like enga, is it interesting
from a, you know, a a a basic level.

Yeah.

And if you're not getting engagement,
that should maybe tell you what

you're doing is not interesting.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Um, so, and I think that's where.

Uh, your self trusts God bro,
has really been able to continue

to grow is, it's interesting.

Yeah.

Even though the algorithms have
changed and all the way people

consume, things have changed.

You've stayed consistent, but you're
continually delivering interesting stuff.

Joshua Perry: Yeah.

Yeah.

It's fascinating.

Yeah.

What, what are some of the things
that you've seen on your end?

Arun Koshy: Yeah, I've been
like trying to figure this out.

'cause actually, yeah.

The consistency of it is what
I think is most important.

'cause you just don't know what
will capture your audience yet.

Right.

Until you put it out there.

So you just have to keep
putting content out there.

And then kind of what you're
saying, it's like you have to put

your ear to the ground and stay.

Mm-hmm.

Kind of aware or what trends are
happening, what are people, how are

they responding to your content.

Mm-hmm.

But you just might not
know what might go viral.

And so you just constantly
keep putting out content.

And I think the one thing that's
starting to shift is people

are looking for authenticity.

Right.

Um, and so I think it's like how did
you find that level of authenticity in

a world where it's just like, I can just
generate pump content it as possible.

Joshua Perry: You know, it's
even in, within the last year,

um, I think right now we live.

In a generational run right now mm-hmm.

Where you can get free attention.

Yeah.

Right.

And, and, and content.

Everybody wants it.

Content, dude.

You know, they all want it.

And it's like, it's even getting more
competitive now in the sense where I

personally believe this window won't last
for, for everyone being able to do social

media as, as a content creator interest.

Yeah.

Um, the problem right now is that like,
everyone looks like one character.

Mm.

That's true.

That floating head in the car,
you know, kind of concept and

that's one creative format.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

And so the, the how people start social
media is going to get way more difficult

as the months go on, um, because.

Again, these creative formats, uh,
are starting to look very similar

when people are, are scrolling
and scrolling and scrolling.

Mm-hmm.

They're looking at subconsciously
the same character, right?

Mm-hmm.

In the same kind of composition
and, and, and things like that.

So, where I've seen creators, uh, really
excel are the ones that continue to

innovate creative formats, meaning,
like, formats as in like a skit.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: Or, you
know, um, a selfie video.

Mm-hmm.

Or, you know, a high quality B
roll video of, you know, from

a camera cinematic footage.

Right.

Like those are different
creative formats that Yeah.

Different, you know, uh, accounts used
to, to really try to grow their brand.

Mm-hmm.

And so, um, yeah, I think
that's also interesting to see.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Arun Koshy: I don't know if you
follow, um, kind of like the live

streaming, like the Twitch, YouTube
streaming, all that kind of content

Adam Smallcombe: Religiously.

Religiously, yeah.

I was gonna say,

Arun Koshy: but it feels like the,
that generation that's coming up is.

Finding this idea of I'll just stream
my entire life, but then while I'm doing

that, I'll clip farm, so I'll do things.

Right.

Right.

That seem like it's very
authentic in my day to day.

See, this is the craziest thing for me,

Adam Smallcombe: is the streamer economy.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

That there were people who are
just nonstop streaming their lives.

I feel me.

People like these kind of, yeah.

Yeah.

It's like huge.

How pathetic, in my opinion, is your life.

If you are watching that.

Right?

Like you're in, was the MP C Oh yeah.

NPC.

Like you, you are just making up numbers.

If that's.

You are watching somebody
live their lives.

Arun Koshy: Yeah, yeah,

Adam Smallcombe: yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's, that's, that would
make me so depressed.

Arun Koshy: Right, right, right.

But we should, I feel like we
should look at to why, why are

people searching for that content?

Tell us specifically.

Tell us.

Yeah.

And I'm actually curious because
I think it can show us where

we need to go with our content.

Right.

Why do you think that is?

Like, is this

Adam Smallcombe: like the modern day
Big Brother or something like that?

You're actually watching
somebody live their lives?

It basically is modern

Joshua Perry: day reality tv.

But yeah, I would be
curious what you think.

Yeah.

JI know, man.

I mean there's, there,
this is your world, bro.

It, it's like people consume,
you know, short form content.

Speaker 4: Yep.

Joshua Perry: Vastly different from
how they consume long form content.

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4: Right.

Joshua Perry: And I think there's
something about being able to have like

an inner, you know, look at someone's
life, you know, like that whole streaming

world that's like, that is a whole other
world of content creation in of itself.

Yeah.

And so that I, I think obviously like I.

Being able to have a personality
that can carry a long form

content type of piece like that.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I, I think it's also generational too.

Right?

Okay.

Like, um, different people,
different ages are tuning in with

different types of content formats.

Mm-hmm.

Um, it's interesting to see.

Yeah.

Um, I, I think, I think like the
people are tuning into short form

contact TikTok and Instagram,
Facebook, and I think if it's not

purely educational or entertaining,
they don't want to listen to it.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and, and I think
YouTube is very value driven.

At the same time though, I think
people, um, expect to receive

value from YouTube as well.

Um, and so I think, I think if anyone's
trying to break out into the content, into

the content game, I would even myself,
I've been wanting to challenge myself to.

Put my personal brand out there
and explore, uh, platforms

and, um, it's been fun.

Yeah.

Uh, it's been fun yapping, you
know, on TikTok, uh, YouTube.

I

Adam Smallcombe: think that's, I
think that sort of stuff is fun.

The, the streaming thing for me
though is like, uh, WWE e Yeah, yeah.

You know, it's like someone
pretending to live their life mm-hmm.

But they're entertaining you.

Speaker 4: Right, right.

But

Adam Smallcombe: they're not
really living their life.

Right.

Yeah.

But you are watching someone live
their life that's not really,

they're, they're doing the pretend
here and we're all playing along.

Yeah.

It's,

Joshua Perry: it's all, it's all
a show, you know, like it's all a

Adam Smallcombe: show.

It's all a show.

But like, is that entertainment?

Because I feel like it's gonna
be interesting, entertaining,

or informative, right?

Mm-hmm.

For content.

Mm-hmm.

And anything outside of that, does
that just sit in the entertainment?

Like, I am bored with films.

I just wanna watch someone online, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I will, I will give you my

Arun Koshy: take on this.

Yeah.

Give us your take.

I love, help me.

I think when I first joined Vibe, the,
one of the coolest things about Vibe was.

The quality of content
that was generated here.

Mm-hmm.

Everything was like with the highest
quality, the highest level of like skill.

And I always thought like, why is it only
that we just post content on Sundays?

Like just sermon content.

Mm-hmm.

Like you have all these people that are
so talented, they have their own lives

and they're figuring things out and
they can create this content and put

out there, why are we not in all of the
different spaces, like in sports, in like,

you know, whatever, get ready with me.

Makeup videos or like, you
know, gym videos, right?

Like, why is there not like somebody of
the faith that's leading those kind of

content and then creating this IRL content
or streaming content where it's faith

driven, but it's not a sermon, right?

It's like people with good values
and it's pushing out there.

Mm-hmm.

So I try to think of like,
what are people drawn to?

Right.

That you can be seeing somebody doing
living their life, but you get immediate

access to chat with them directly.

And I think it's that live
chat that has changed the game.

Yeah.

It's not like I'm watching Big Brother,
like you mentioned, and it's just there.

And then I'm thinking about it in
like some like parasocial way where

I see it through the screen, but I
have no interaction with it where

it's, you have direct interaction
with these content creators, right?

Where real time while they're doing
stuff, you're interacting with them and

they're interacting back with you and they
change what they're doing based on Yeah.

Your interaction.

I think that's like a unique,
I think it's its own way of

community building online, right?

Yes.

Community building.

It really is community building.

Yeah.

Yeah.

These communities are hard core, like
when they find a personality Yeah.

That they trust and they build
this community with, I mean, it's

what it's churches are doing, but
it's like in this unique space.

Right.

It's wild.

Joshua Perry: I think I've also
seen the churches that I've seen

really excel in social media.

Mm-hmm.

See it as as modern media,
not traditional media.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

So their approach to social
media is, is grounded in.

Being able to create optimized
content for social media.

Mm-hmm.

That is connective, personable.

Um, and again, just really
being a student for the type of

content format that's gonna work.

Um, right.

And so, yeah, being able to have
ways that people connect with

content without having to necessarily
promote your brand, but having a,

you know, that that spin on that.

I think it's,

Speaker 6: yeah.

Arun Koshy: Yeah.

How you found people connect with,
like, 'cause you were doing this,

you were doing social media kind
of leading all creative at church.

How do you find people connect with
the content that you were pushing out

for church versus the content you're
pushing out for Trust God, but they're

both in the faith space, but Right.

It's like one is directly connected
to a church and one is, you know,

associated with, you know, the,
the big G kind of God brand, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Big G.

The big, yeah.

Joshua Perry: I think like the,
there's content for like the global.

Church community and content
for your local church community.

Right.

And, and the content that you
produce as a local church will be

relevant for your local church.

Mm-hmm.

And to be able to branch out and look
and see what's also performing on these

platforms that may relate to the general
Christian lifestyle experience mm-hmm.

And creating and leveraging your creative
team, you know, in your local church

to reflect those lifestyle experiences
online can be more relevant to people

who aren't part of your community.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and so things that like yeah.

From, from everyday like experiences
that we all like go through,

as you know, as as Christians.

Mm-hmm.

I think.

There's also this side of being able to
branch out beyond, um, promoting mm-hmm.

And promotional content.

Mm-hmm.

That I think churches are finding
very successful of other accounts too.

Adam Smallcombe: For sure.

Yeah, for sure.

I think the, the advertisement
day has to be over.

Mm-hmm.

Like, we're just running ads.

It's gotta be, I think Yeah.

In the world of church, it's gotta
be how do we, how do we, uh, deliver

good content in this short platform?

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

It's a different style
of content delivery.

Um, one of the things I like is
not given the whole conclusion,

but just, uh, a lead in to Yeah.

Find out more.

Mm-hmm.

Is always a good way.

Okay.

But talk to us quickly.

Is that okay if I Yeah,
no, please, please.

Doin.

Yes, please.

Um, okay.

JP in the entrepreneurial
sense, you're an entrepreneur,

you always got business ideas.

Yeah.

What are you working on at the moment

Joshua Perry: right now, the.

The thing that has transformed
the way that I even look

at our own business mm-hmm.

Is heavily influenced by Alex Sarey Okay.

And his whole approach to business.

Okay.

Wait,

Arun Koshy: tell me, tell
the audience a little bit.

So, Alex

Joshua Perry: Sarey is, I personally think
is the, at the top of the game when it

comes to online business personalities.

Okay.

I think his content, his material
is no fluff down, very tactical,

very simple to implement.

Speaker 5: Yep.

Joshua Perry: And so the way that he
is able to articulate business and,

and how I've been able to adopt those
concepts, um, has been transformative.

Wow.

His whole premise is create
an offer no matter the type

of business that you're in.

Mm-hmm.

Whether you're in software
information, product-based business

or service-based business mm-hmm.

Offer something so good that
it would be dumb to say no too.

Yeah.

Right.

And so with that concept in mind.

In our current business, our number one
offer right now that is, um, it's really

trending and, and, and working well for
our business is our performance hats.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and so we have in a way,
positioned this performance hat, are

you familiar with the brand Melon?

Adam Smallcombe: Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We are like the one that,
like the waterproof cat.

Yeah.

That kind

Joshua Perry: of stuff.

We are like positioned as like
the faith-based alternative to me.

Okay.

Right, right.

And so we're, we're
tapping into an audience.

Of men from 30 to 55 right now.

Mm-hmm.

Oh, I saw guys like the blue collar.

Yeah,

Adam Smallcombe: I'm right in
the middle of that right now.

Between 30 and 55.

From 45.

It's right in the middle.

Okay.

Yep.

So marketing to me,

Joshua Perry: and so, uh, we are able
to really scale well with this offer.

Mm-hmm.

And it, and when it comes to direct
to consumer brands, it's really

about scaling that one offer.

Adam Smallcombe: But can I just say that
that market is such a smart market, Uhhuh?

'cause it's, it's actually
a market that has money.

Mm.

I think so much is marketed to Gen Z.

Right.

And Gen Z need free, right?

Mm-hmm.

They, they're not looking for
spend, they're looking for free.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, and unlocking the
market of the 35 to 55.

It's so smart.

Joshua Perry: Yeah.

Everyone's, you know,
going towards Gen Z, right?

Like Right.

The box season and in the street wear.

Yeah.

And we're like doing that stuff, right?

Yeah.

They can't afford that.

But there's underserved dad buys it.

Yeah.

There's this under, I know
overpriced, but Dad does buy a lot

of those things for his daughters.

So I've heard that's the market.

The market.

There's this like underserved community.

Yeah.

It's like, sure, I've been waiting
for something and now I finally

get to kind of experience something
that love reflects my faith.

Love, love.

Right.

But I will counter one

Arun Koshy: point to the Gen Z.

The Gen Zs are the ones that
are pushing content out there.

Right?

They're the ones that once they do
get your brand, they're posting it on

all their socials and other content
and that micro influencer kinda

marketing is what you're looking for.

I don't know how many of us.

You know, 35 to 55 year olds are
like posting our content out there.

There are, but I mean, like, yeah.

Yeah.

Maybe that's why they're going

Joshua Perry: for it.

So crafting offers is what I'm
like obsessed with right now.

Okay.

So his latest book, uh, a hundred
million dollar Money Models is fantastic.

Please go check it out.

Done.

You know, it's on Amazon.

Done.

Um, I'm reading it.

So he goes over four different types of
offers that we're implementing right now

as a business, uh, your attraction offer.

Yep.

And so this is like
your core offer, right?

So in our case, this
is our performance hat.

Get 10% off, you know, first buy.

Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: Upsell offers down
sell offers and continuity offers.

Mm-hmm.

Upsell offers.

Get $15 off when you buy
three plus performance hats.

Yep.

Right?

And so we can essentially have the same
customer acquisition cost and increase

the average order value substantially.

Yep.

Um, and then we have, you know,
our down sell offers is anything

on sale or, you know, any accessory
things that are on a low ticket.

And then our continuity offers is all the
iterations, all the colorways that we.

And so when you have all of those
four elements working together,

especially in the context of a
direct to consumer brand, which I

think, I think building service-based
business is, is difficult, right?

Like Sure.

I don't know.

Like there's some luxury building,
a direct to consumer brand.

Mm-hmm.

I, I think, I think it's
definitely one of the easier ones.

Speaker 6: Yep.

Joshua Perry: Um, yep.

Just 'cause you don't have to spend
all this time rendering the service

and, um, but I mean, people have
obviously different takes on that,

but for sure they're like, there are
like 15 to 20 products that I've,

you know, that are unrelated to trust
God bro, that I'm like, oh my gosh.

Yeah.

Like so much potential.

So, so the

Adam Smallcombe: takeaways there
are like deliver high value, right?

Uh, and that there is a multi-level
way to market a product.

Absolutely not just your one standard
way you can, you, you've got different

layers that you can implement.

Yeah.

And, and people.

So you're never

Joshua Perry: stuck.

Yeah.

And people articulate
value in four factors.

Right.

Okay.

So the dream outcome.

Speaker 6: Yep.

Joshua Perry: So can they see
that being evident by purchasing

your service or product Yep.

With, um, the perceived
likelihood of achievement

Speaker 6: Yep.

Joshua Perry: Over the time that it
takes and the effort and sacrifice.

And that's kind of like
Alex harm's whole formula.

This is his whole formula
of articulating value.

Yeah.

I like it.

And so even from a messaging
standpoint, being able to take that

formula and, you know, hot chat,
you know, create some language and

messaging around that for ad copy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which by the way, like I'm,
that was a pretty good job.

Nah.

Yeah.

Wild.

Yeah.

That's so good.

AI.

And I mean, that's a
whole other wait I wanna

Arun Koshy: get into, because
actually one of of my good friends

is in the e-commerce kind of space.

Just like you.

Yeah.

He's saying like there is this kind of,
I mean, the shift is kind of already

starting to happen, but there's this like,
fear of where e-commerce is gonna go.

Yeah.

Now the AI is gonna Yeah.

Gonna kill Google search where you
go like, I don't know about you.

Like when I am now searching for stuff.

Yeah.

It's usually what's the best blah,
blah, blah thing that I'm looking for.

What's the best men's gra And then there's
a few articles that are back linking

to the website, and then you go search.

Right?

Right.

So if I'm looking for, you
know, this kind of, you know,

athletic performance hat, right?

I'll go, what's the best faith-based,
you know, and I'll go search.

And so e-commerce platforms have
mastered SEO, they've figured out

how to back link and get all that.

Where are you seeing the space
and kind of like, how are you

adjusting to the new AI kind of

Joshua Perry: driven
world where we're in now?

Good question.

Yeah.

I, I think every company finds
ways of adopting ai mm-hmm.

Depending on what type of AI
that they're implementing.

Right.

And so for, for, for us, there's a
lot of experimentation that we're

having, um, currently managing
all of our meta ads right now.

And it's, it is wild how.

Meta has completely changed the
infrastructure of their ad setup.

Mm-hmm.

So there's a lot of manual features
and manual targeting, uh, little

aspects that are not there anymore.

Mm-hmm.

They're in this whole
like, season of trust us.

Oh yeah.

Like we know, like our, a algorithm
and our AI is going to direct your

product to your ideal customer.

Sure.

I'm gonna try.

Arun Koshy: Trust is up,

Joshua Perry: bro.

Arun Koshy: I mean, my mind, like,

Joshua Perry: and it's, you
can give us some suggestions.

Um, but I mean, I even have this whole
workflow built out where, you know,

even from a creative standpoint, and
this is where I think my experiences

as an artist and illustrator and,
and all of that is really informing

me from an advertising perspective.

Mm.

For sure.

I, I think what inspires me is
when someone looks at something

for the first time, like.

What kind of impression
am I wanting to make?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

And that's, I think, that's
the artist in me, right?

The artist to me wants to kind
of bring that breathtaking Yeah.

You know, you scroll and
you're like, what is that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right.

The sense of like, it's
familiar but fresh.

Yeah.

It almost feels obvious that it
should have been bought by me already.

Mm.

Like, like that might

Arun Koshy: be

Joshua Perry: your superpower
because we have, that's your window.

Arun Koshy: You have maybe a
second while people are scrolling.

It's insane.

That's it.

And you gotta get that reaction where it's
like, well, I haven't seen that before.

Lemme stop.

Mm.

That might be your superpower.

Like what are

Joshua Perry: some products on your
end, maybe you bought online, or

things that like, have interested you.

I'm just, I'm just curious even to

Arun Koshy: that life brought
through Instagram ads.

Joshua Perry: Yeah, yeah.

The ads in general.

Yeah.

Because I, I've never really bought
from an ad and so it's interesting

that I'm, you know, managing them.

But I'm seeing, yeah.

Have you ever

Adam Smallcombe: bought from an ad?

Arun Koshy: There's been.

You know what I, what I have, I'm
a, I'm a sucker usually, usually

around like gift giving season.

When you have hundred percent
holidays, somehow my phone knows.

Yeah.

I Oh, wow.

These flowers or this like,
cute little Valentine's Day.

Oh, you do random stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

These, like, they just fall pop up at
the right time, right when I need it.

Adam Smallcombe: Yeah.

I feel like I've curated my feed so
much down hunting and bow hunting.

Oh, I see.

I've got arrows, archery scopes, and
I'm just like, man, I'm on this ad.

I'm like, okay, let me, I'm
clicking the link, I'm ordering.

Right.

I feel

Arun Koshy: like for those, at least for
me personally, don't you want to like

research that this is the best, I'm a
researcher, you're a performance person.

Right?

So I, I've, I've,

Adam Smallcombe: I'm backlogged
enough now where I know this stuff.

Ah, okay.

Yeah.

That I've got the knowledge
base I see to make purchase.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Fair.

So I think there's a learning curve.

Joshua Perry: Okay.

Adam Smallcombe: And now my feet is
so curated that it's like dialed in.

Yeah.

Joshua Perry: That's cool.

That's interesting.

Okay.

That's, that's your customers.

Yeah.

I know, right?

And so I have this whole other.

You know, like workflow of
incorporating AI into my ad creative.

Right, right.

And having that, like, I think cha
Bt has like the best image model.

Like it's fantastic.

Mm-hmm.

Like the, I and I have a trained eye.

Right.

And so we, we all know what,
like, but is it that hard?

Adam Smallcombe: Like, I mean, I
think we give AI so much credit for

being like, super genius, but Right.

Or is it that we're just that predictable?

Speaker 5: Interesting.

Mm-hmm.

Adam Smallcombe: Like, is it, are
we only three or four likes away

from knowing everything about Arun?

Mm.

Because Right.

You, you, you, you're kind of predictable.

Mm-hmm.

Your hobbies are very
predictable, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Let's just say.

You're into pickleball and Yeah.

And you know, athletic wear.

Yeah.

It's not that hard to create a feed for
you that's gonna engage you in your likes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But we give AI so much
credit, man, it knows me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or yeah, I could figure that out too.

Let's,

Arun Koshy: let's double click into that.

Why are we so predictable?

And I think it's because social
media trends, everything controls

kind of who we are as people.

We see 50 million people doing
the same exact trend right now.

All of of a sudden I'm doing it.

So like our characters are all
being shaped by the trends that

are being pushed down to us.

Right.

Right.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, so maybe that's why.

Adam Smallcombe: So if we are going
to triple click Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, you know, 'cause we talk
about globalization, right?

Mm-hmm.

Back in the day when I was 15,
this is way before there was any

social media or anything like that.

My first trip to the United
States, it felt like I went

into a different world, okay.

From Australia.

Okay?

But now you could be in Australia,
you could be in London, you

could be anywhere and so's like.

If you just got plopped there, you'd take
you a minute to figure out where am I?

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Am

Adam Smallcombe: I, what city am I in?

Yeah.

'cause the globalization makes
everything feel so similar.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Adam Smallcombe: Is the world becoming
more and more and more similar because

we're all getting fed the same content.

Mm-hmm.

So globalization is happening
on such a rapid rate.

Joshua Perry: Yeah.

Right.

That

Adam Smallcombe: there
isn't that much distinction.

Joshua Perry: Yeah.

No, I agree.

Yeah.

Right.

It, it's interesting from a,
from this side of, of things

as I'm managing our, our ads.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: And I'm looking and
I'm being a student of the data

and I'm allowing me to, I'm, I'm
allowing it to inform you about

all the decisions that I'm making.

It, it's wild to think that
there are people on the other

side of these decisions.

So is

Adam Smallcombe: it easier
now to be a trendsetter or

harder now to be a trendsetter?

Joshua Perry: I think it's becoming
easier because everyone's starting

to do what everyone else is doing.

Ah.

I, I think the process, process of
creating and, and an iconic product,

which I, I think the process of, of, of.

Really finding success in this direct
to consumer brand space is Right.

Like you, you continue to innovate Yep.

Execute on it so well to the,
when you find those results and

you just continue to iterate.

Right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a process of innovation,
iteration, and then execution.

And I feel like, like even when I think
about like our, it's hard for me to even

think about like a 10 year plan right
now because I'm, I'm so in the weeds

of making this season work and scaling
our company at this point in time.

Mm-hmm.

Like, granted, there's so many different
factors and, you know, uh, it goes

into scaling other than paid ads.

Right, right.

But, um, but it's, it's also interesting
to see how things are, are trending and,

and which ads people are responding to
the most, and which headlines are they

responding to the most, and being able
to invest more into that and continue to

see things, uh, perform at, at that rate.

So

Arun Koshy: I'm curious,
are you guys seeing trends?

Like you were asking, is it
easy to become a trendsetter?

But I'm wondering if it's
because the trend cycles are

now shorter than they used to.

I feel like before it was like you would
catch a trend and it would be wild.

Oh yeah.

We would dance in the Macarena for Right.

Right now it's like trend
comes and goes Exactly.

In a week.

Right?

Like you get super viral.

Everybody's doing, everybody's
talking about it and it's dropped

and the next thing comes up.

Yeah.

You can miss a trend.

Yeah.

You can sleep.

You can sleep on a str, on a trend.

Pretty, pretty easily.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

So I feel like, I wonder if it's hard now
it's easier to build a brand, but it's

harder to build a long lasting brand.

Right?

Because like, you might not see
the next, like Louis Vuitton

that's just been there for years.

Like a brand that's a staple for Right.

You know, luxury.

But now it's like these brands will
all pop up a lot of small brands.

There's like, oh, this is the next
hot thing, and then throw it away.

Get the next one.

Go throw it away.

Get the next one.

Right.

People

Joshua Perry: love to copy art direction.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

People love being able to see
like how something is shocked.

Everybody's copy everyone, dude.

And so.

I think what's unique is finding
and aggregating ideas that aren't

existing in the digital world.

Mm.

Like things from magazines and gathering
and allowing that to inform your creative

library and, and all of your, uh,
your taste, your style, your interest.

Mm-hmm.

And being able to make those decisions
and bring them into whatever product

service that you have to offer.

Um, I think that's where you can really
stand out and, and make something

unique from the branding perspective.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I was taught in the, my
personal approach to branding

comes into five key factors.

Um, so the first way to establish
like a brand strategy, when I talk

to other entrepreneurs who are trying
to start out, maybe they're launching

a product and they're trying to
figure out like, how do I stand out?

Like how do, how do I figure
out what's me and how do I

produce something that's unique?

I walk 'em through, um,
what is your brand promise?

What's your offer?

Mm-hmm.

Right?

What is, what is the thing that
people can come back and know and

recognize, like, I'm gonna get every
single time I encounter your brand.

Mm-hmm.

Um, the second thing is
your brand personality.

So who you are Yep.

As a brand.

Yep.

Personality of it makes sense.

Even on an individual level.

Like are you witty?

Are you funny?

Are you stoic?

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

The qualities, the characteristics.

Um, the third thing is
your brand positioning.

Mm-hmm.

So in this case, like for us with
our one offer, it's like we are

positioned as the alternative mm-hmm.

To, to Mellon right now.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Joshua Perry: Right.

Uh, the fourth thing
is brand associations.

Mm.

So when people see you, who can they
draw associations with, all that stuff.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Right.

Because then they affiliation.

Yeah.

Yeah.

A hundred percent.

And the last thing is your
brand with Israel kind of thing.

Your brand story.

Yeah.

Right.

And your brand story is the last
one where it's like your challenges,

your vision, your mission.

Yeah.

Um, what people can rally behind.

Mm-hmm.

All of those things.

And so I think when anyone's trying
to start out with building a brand, a

product, whatever that is, I think that
simple framework might seem simple, but I

think it's powerful when you start to take
into account all those different elements.

'cause your brand's obviously not
just your logo, your your color

palette and all those things.

Sure.

Of course.

Adam Smallcombe: I think this all makes
sense definitely from a, a business model

and, you know, uh, a consumer product.

Right,

Speaker 4: right.

Adam Smallcombe: I think it gets
weird when it comes into the world

of an individual, like a person

Speaker 4: uhhuh,

Adam Smallcombe: like when you are
building your brand, personal brand.

Right.

What's your, I think the pastor in me
goes into, where's the deficit in you

where you want everyone to know you?

Right.

Or you want everyone to see you
uhhuh where you want to be seen for

something or known as something.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Adam Smallcombe: And why do
you wanna be known by many?

Mm-hmm.

Or why don't you want
just be known by few?

Speaker 4: Right.

Adam Smallcombe: So that, I
think for me, I get a little.

My pastoral mind just starts tweaking.

Speaker 4: Mm.

I

Adam Smallcombe: understand it from
a consumer product kind of thing.

Sure.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, I wanna provide,
uh, value to many people,

quality, all that kind of stuff.

But on an individual level, that's
where I kind of get a little flat.

It

Joshua Perry: was initially taught to
me as the concept of a leader brand.

Right.

And so when I take it on an individual
level like that, like my brand

promise as a leader is, you are
going to dream with me every time.

Mm-hmm.

That we were together.

Adam Smallcombe: Right.

Joshua Perry: Right.

Like, I want people to feel like
they can dream with me mm-hmm.

When they hang out.

Got you.

You know, and then I think it
just kind of starts to, you know,

divvy up based on those other
five, you know, elements there.

Yeah.

I love that.

Um, but that's like, that's
like my, my thing, you know?

Well, that's a healthy breakdown for

Adam Smallcombe: people
who are building Yeah.

You know, a product Yeah.

To approach it

Joshua Perry: from those
five key components.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and you know, like I've
always thought too, as a leader.

I, I, I thought like, your brand promise
is important because you can get it done.

Mm-hmm.

But if people don't like working
with you from a personality

standpoint, they get it better.

They don't want, forget it
better what you have to offer.

Right.

And so, and so when I think about
it on an individual level, I'm

like, oh, like my personality.

I want to be very connective,
easygoing, personable, while I'm able

to do a great job, um, have the right
associations and have a story that

people will connect with me about.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Arun Koshy: Yeah.

When you guys both talk about,
like, you're talking about personal

branding, you're, you know, direct
to consumer, all of this seems

like community building, right?

Like you're all, you're doing all
of this to do community, right?

I feel like 'cause, right?

I mean, I feel like
everything you're doing is.

You create a brand, but it's for
the person to then create that

association with the brand to then be
an association with other people that

have the brand to be in community.

Right.

Like

Adam Smallcombe: I think the
consumer product, you, you, you're

building a community for both sales.

Mm-hmm.

So it's a bit of a, uh, a leverage
community, but at the same time

identifying I'm part of this community.

So if I'm wearing the brand that
JP created, I wanna associate

with that community of people
who also rep that brand.

Right.

Right.

I think on the individual level,
how, how authentic is the community

If I'm just a number and a huge cog.

Right.

If there's no, if I'm just
following a personality.

Right.

Right, right, right.

That, that's, that's where
it gets confusing for

Arun Koshy: me.

Yeah.

I wonder if it's more like, like,
I'm gonna use you as a, a use case.

You're leading a church, a global church.

Mm-hmm.

And you have a mission.

Mm-hmm.

And it's like, that is part
of your personal brand.

Right.

And your mission is to build this church.

Right.

And if people can form a community
around that, I want to help.

Pastor Adam build this thing.

And so like your personal brand and
you getting that out to the world

allows people to see your mission
and then join you on that mission.

It's kind of what you did on like a
non-social scale when you came here

and you, you know, brought people in
individually and built the church.

Now it's just on like a global
digital scale where now maybe there's

some person out in Africa that sees
your social media personal brand.

It's like, well, that's a
mission I wanna get behind.

Mm-hmm.

Adam Smallcombe: Yeah.

I guess, I guess there's a tension, right?

Yeah.

Do, do, uh, do you push a brand
of you and make everything about

you and so you become the brand

Speaker 4: mm-hmm.

Adam Smallcombe: Which is limited
in its scalability, right?

Or is the brand, the community

Speaker 4: mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Adam Smallcombe: Is the product,
the community, right, right.

Or is the product my content?

Mm-hmm.

Whereas my content a part of the
community as much as your content

is, and together there's a content.

You see what I'm saying?

I think, I think it's always got
limited effect when it becomes around

a, a celebrity, uh, that you pushing
as the representation of that.

Community because the community's
gotta be much wider and

deeper than that personality.

Mm-hmm,

Speaker 4: mm-hmm.

Adam Smallcombe: Like as, as much as
I could make my personal brand the

representation of Life Church, it's gonna.

Do a poor, no, there's no representation
of the magnificence of Vive Church.

Right.

Right.

Because I'm not that impressive.

Right, right, right.

And so what it has to do is
how do I just play a part?

Right, right.

In the personality of VI church,
not be the personality of VI church.

Yeah, yeah,

Joshua Perry: yeah.

And I think that makes the
community breathe, you know?

And then just makes, I hope,

Adam Smallcombe: I think so.

Joshua Perry: It just opens up.

I think so.

That freedom of expression
in, 'cause I've seen it.

Yeah.

Adam Smallcombe: We, we see in
the church world specifically, the

creative direction for some churches
is we're gonna promote our pastor.

Our pastor is gonna be the celebrity,
and we are here because of this person.

Mm-hmm.

And this person is on every post.

They everything.

They're the they, they get
more mentioned than God.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Adam Smallcombe: And then we take
the other approach, which I think

is the VI church approach, and
let's just make me a piece of it.

Yeah, yeah.

Let's, I mean, it is a piece.

Right.

Okay.

'cause there is a
position and a leadership.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Adam Smallcombe: But it's just a piece of
many parts that is such wider and deeper.

Uh, I, I don't know.

I just feel like that is more
sustainable and not suffocating.

Arun Koshy: Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

I will, I will tell you guys from like
the crypto space, kind of like community

building there and how we see it.

Yeah.

Um, and how well we've seen work and
it is people need somebody to follow.

Like they need a figurehead to follow.

They can't, A brand is, you can kind
of get behind it, but if there's not

a, a person behind the brand Yeah.

That you can kind of relate to, it's hard
to really follow and join that community.

And what we've seen is once, um, and I'll
take our company, but once one of our

founders became almost that face socially,
to be the one to speak out and engage with

the community and all that kind of stuff,
we saw our community grow around him.

And now he, we have five co-founders.

Mm-hmm.

And he is like the face of our community.

Wow.

And so that's when we saw a
shift and a dynamic shift.

And I feel like that happens in most
of like the major L ones out there.

Like you have a, like Vitalik,
Ethereum, like totally for Solana.

Like you have a person that
people can kind of get behind.

And I don't know, I think
it's like, I understand the

tension in the church space.

'cause you don't want that
celebrity pastor that can kind of

take away from what you're really
trying to promote, which is God.

Right.

Um, but it's interesting if there is
a way to kind of thread that properly

through where you can give, 'cause what
people here are looking for is just like a

physical human that we can kind of follow.

Well, I think the question you've

Adam Smallcombe: gotta come
down is what's the product?

Arun Koshy: Mm-hmm.

Right?

Adam Smallcombe: What's
the product of the church?

Yeah.

I, when we look at Charles Gob
Road, the product's pretty simple.

It's, it's, there's a three part, I
think you said social, uh, uh, apparel.

Mm-hmm.

Music something.

Right.

You can define those products.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Adam Smallcombe: When it comes
to something like the church,

um, what is the product?

Is the product, the content, and I think
most churches think it's the content.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Adam Smallcombe: It's not the content.

I think the product is the community.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Right.

Adam Smallcombe: The
community is the product.

Yeah.

It's hard to measure as much as content.

Mm-hmm.

But you are, you are gotta, you've
gotta create the community, right.

And offer the community and find a
way to go deeper into the community.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Because that's the, 'cause let's
be honest, we, there's a lot

of people, and this, I'm not
mentioning any church right now.

Yeah.

But's, people who go to church
with pretty crappy content.

Mm-hmm.

Crappy preaching, crappy music.

Yeah.

And you're like, why are you there?

Yeah.

Oh, my community, my friends are here.

Right.

Speaker 4: At the same

Adam Smallcombe: time, uh, these
churches were probably great

worship, great, but crappy community.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Adam Smallcombe: And they're only online.

Yeah.

We know them because they're online,
but they've had to go online and

do music tours and that, because
they can't build a community.

So their only option is to become an
online product around a celebrity.

Right.

But what happens when that celebrity
dies or ages out or whatever,

everything dies, dies with it.

Mm-hmm.

But maybe the sustainability of a
community lives beyond a figurehead.

Joshua Perry: Mm-hmm.

It's, it's interesting to see.

In my personal, in, in my experience
and ministry experience, being

a, around a community mm-hmm.

Has informed me what a a, an online
community should look like as well.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and that's where I
think we're headed too, uh, in

all these social media platforms.

Right.

I think people who start out their
content creation, just purely

entertaining people aren't the ones to
really come away with those benefits

because they're not building community.

They're just building up and act.

Yeah.

Right.

And so being able to foster a sense of
community, I think closed communities

are becoming much more valuable.

Mm-hmm.

Um, things that don't
necessarily have a feed mm-hmm.

Where people can interact
with on a more intimate level.

Um, yeah.

Being able to create community
online is, is, is gonna be, it's, I

mean, it's already here, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Like, it's, it's extremely valuable.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Arun Koshy: Yeah.

I mean, I feel like we keep
talking about this for a long time.

Yeah.

But I wanted to just point out one
thing that I've heard you say before.

You know, you've spoken to people, you
actually want to bring out leaders.

Yeah.

Like that's, that is one of your
callings, one of your missions.

Yeah.

And you say that it's not just
by listening to these kind of

podcasts and do you have to go
out and experience and do things?

Yeah.

Like what is one piece of advice that you
would wanna, like, leave our audience, you

know, hype network and, you know Right.

The people that be listening to this.

What, what is one piece of
advice you want the millions

Adam Smallcombe: of
people that are listening?

The, the millions

Arun Koshy: come on.

3 million, 3.9

I think

Joshua Perry: today.

Yep.

3.9.

I think there are, um,
there are several things.

Um, I think from a, from a faith
perspective, um, whatever, whatever

the Lord is asking you to build.

Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: Um, whatever ideas that
you have going on, like do everything.

You can be relentless with building up
the material around that inspiration.

Mm.

Um, do everything you can to organize
all the different pieces that are

going to build out that vision.

I, I think about those times
in ministry or even now, like.

I value ideas so much more because I
have the experience of building them out.

Yeah.

And I've seen even from a
financial perspective, all of the

results that can come from that.

And I'm like, man, that lived in my brain.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And now people are getting to experience,
um, what I created on a national level.

That's amazing.

And so I, I tend to take
those ideas seriously.

Mm-hmm.

And pause and, and really flush them out.

Um, because if I wait on them
for too long, I start to realize

it's harder to move in faith.

Mm.

That's true.

You start to second guess, you know,
that, that you're not on fire anymore.

It's kind of cooled down.

Mm-hmm.

And you start to, you know, ask yourself
like, or where did this idea come from?

Mm-hmm.

You know, so I always take a moment
to pause, even if it's in my notes

app, um, to write down all the ideas.

And I know there are, there are so
many different business opportunities

and ideas that I'm being inspired
of because I'm trying to expand my

skillset beyond creative production.

More into paid advertising.

Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.

Joshua Perry: But I'm putting those on
the shelf because I don't wanna, you know,

I don't want to distract myself so much.

Sure.

Right.

Like, I, I'm kind You wanna deliver Yeah.

Putting these things on the shelf.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

And so, um, yeah, I would, I would, I
would encourage anyone to, to do that.

Mm-hmm.

I think there are dreams that I
feel like, I, I think in my personal

life, I, I feel like there have been
dreams that I thought have died.

And what I've realized from
being in ministry to now being an

entrepreneur, is some dreams don't die.

You just become better postured in
certain seasons to activate them.

True.

Because you got the wisdom.

That's a good takeaway.

You got the relationships.

Mm-hmm.

I like that you got the experience,
you got the education, and now you're

better prepared to advance those
ideas and put them into motion.

Mm-hmm.

And so I've, I've, I've come
to see that as a reality.

Mm.

Year after year.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Um, and so it's just very
encouraging because the Lord

knows what's on your heart.

Like I.

I know and con confidently say that my
talent per se wasn't necessarily painting.

Mm.

It was this ability to bring and
birth something into reality.

So whether that's like a business
or whether that's through other

creative skill sets, um, different
mediums still Yeah, different mediums.

Um, pushing outside of my comfort
zone to realize that mm-hmm.

Um, was so crucial.

So I mean, there's, there's all
these other like faith leadership

axioms and stuff that I, you
know, have and stuff like that.

But, um, I mean, those are some of
the, some of the things that I can,

you know, just kind of list off

Arun Koshy: top.

Yeah.

No, I thought that was a, I mean,
best way to end it, honestly.

So good.

Um, I really appreciate
you coming on Josh.

Love having jp.

That was great.

That was, it was really good
captivating conversation.

Like honestly, like it
was hearing about it.

I know for us, building this brand as well
with hype and like the podcast as well,

a lot of useful, useful advice and so.

I think we're gonna be
catching up after this.

It is just picking your brain.

So, um, if this is your first
time listening to the HYPE

podcast, please share it.

Share the brand of hype, you know,
because this is how we're gonna grow it.

Arun wants to be known.

I wanna, my personal brand is cut off.

We're gonna, the parent, he wants
to build the community guys, but

please share it and light if you
want to join the Hype Network.

All the descriptions, everything you
wanna know is in the description below.

Yes.

Um, and we'll catch you
in the next episode.

Cheers guys.